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  #1  
Old 03-02-2006, 12:02 PM
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The cost of consumerism

"But the other thing that our Congress has got to understand is that it's in our economic interests that India have a civilian nuclear power industry to help take the pressure off the global demand for energy," the president said. "To the extent that we can reduce demand for fossil fuels, it will help the American consumer."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002839421_webbush02.html

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  #2  
Old 03-02-2006, 01:40 PM
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I like that idea.

Get everybody else to consume less oil so that we have more to put in the $hitboxes. Wonder if he thought of that by himself??
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  #3  
Old 03-02-2006, 01:45 PM
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Wonder how long it took him to learn the speech?

Sorta recalls Gary Cooper's reply to Ben Hecht when asked if he liked Ben's script,"sure,sure,just fine. I'm readin' it one word at a time.
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Old 03-02-2006, 08:30 PM
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Dang, and I thought this might be an interesting topic.

Instead it's yet another iteration of the same old tired-a$$ theme.

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  #5  
Old 03-02-2006, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Dang, and I thought this might be an interesting topic.

Instead it's yet another iteration of the same old tired-a$$ theme.

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  #6  
Old 03-02-2006, 09:05 PM
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Hamsters. Treadmill.

GO!
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  #7  
Old 03-02-2006, 09:21 PM
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Doesn’t the guy’s pattern of activities strike you strike you as wandering ever further away from the needs of anyone in this country?

While India is a trading partner, and a major source of lost US jobs, to what gain is there by advancing this technology for them? Is it simply the case if we don’t sell the stuff to them the French or Russians or China will?

Isn’t the duplicity of encouraging India to advance this technology all while back handing other countries for the same thing just a little evident?

And this for little other than their permitting international inspections and mangos. It seems an exercise at something between hubris and pimping.
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  #8  
Old 03-02-2006, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebenz
Doesn’t the guy’s pattern of activities strike you strike you as wandering ever further away from the needs of anyone in this country?

While India is a trading partner, and a major source of lost US jobs, to what gain is there by advancing this technology for them? Is it simply the case if we don’t sell the stuff to them the French or Russians or China will?

Isn’t the duplicity of encouraging India to advance this technology all while back handing other countries for the same thing just a little evident?

And this for little other than their permitting international inspections and mangos. It seems an exercise at something between hubris and pimping.
Get out your pocket globe and look at it. Look at the populations. India has a billion people in a relatively benign democracy that has been pretty stable for 30 years or so.

Look to the left of India. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq. Any questions?

Look north and northeast of India. China. Over a billion people living in an unstable People's Paradise. Any questions?

Look east of India. The basket-case of Bangladesh. Any questions?

Look southeast of India. Indonesia. A population of a half-billion mostly Muslims in an oil and mineral-rich archipelago consisting of thousands of islands spread over several tens of thousands of square miles. Any questions?

India is changing from a statist-socialist system to an entrepreneurial capitalist system. The people are very bright and hard working. They are intentionally working through and dismantling this hideously oppressive caste system. They have more minorities with larger populations than North America and yet the country is stable.

They have nukes. China and Pakistan, with whom India has fought border wars for decades, also have nukes. So far nobody has lobbed them. Since they all went 'nukular' the border wars have all but ceased.

Failing to align with a stable democracy with a demonstrable record of human rights that is virtually surrounded by hostile, jealous, non-democratic countries would be unconscionable.

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  #9  
Old 03-03-2006, 12:25 AM
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I remember reading the other day that the Indian middle class has skyrocketed in the last 20 years - something like 250 million now compared to reletivly few in the 70's.
They are doing a great job in India. I'm glad they are our allies and that our president is doing something good for the country (both ours and thiers) by cultivating a stronger relationship with them.
Besides, Indian food rocks!
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  #10  
Old 03-03-2006, 11:33 AM
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You make some good points, B, even when you’re patronizing.

Still selling this as a means of reducing anyone’s oil consumption is total BS. Far as I can tell the only benefit are to those who sell nuclear power technology, and, of course, also the arsenal deal that was frosting to this yellow cake.

Accordingly we will also give them the tools for a breeder reactors and require 0 oversight. And we toss the nuclear development stale mate out the window in the process. Not that it has a whole lot of meaning any more. Here ya go, boys, go make as many nukes as you’d like, we don’t even want to watch. And, by the way, we’ll buy all the mangos you wanna sell us! I've got at least 3 different sauces that use mango. Gosh the deal makes me feel kind of tipsy – you know, the way you feel just before you vomit.

All Bush is doing is advancing the incomes of folks who make bombs and other WMDs. That seems his legacy. I was wrong before, there is only little hubris, and mostly pimping.

The bigger ploy is to use India to imply a threat against China. Why would they care?

What was it I read, India has a “middle class” of about 300 million, yet 80%+ of the nation’s ~1 billion folks make less than $2 per day, or something close to that. That translates to about 100 million making more than $2 per day. You gotta know they give a rat's a$$ about our values. “Thank you for calling Microsoft technical support. We don’t need to tell you your call is being monitored by your own NSA. Snicker. How can I help you”


Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Failing to align with a stable democracy with a demonstrable record of human rights that is virtually surrounded by hostile, jealous, non-democratic countries would be unconscionable.

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We already are aligned. This give away does nothing useful.
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  #11  
Old 03-03-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebenz
We already are aligned. This give away does nothing useful.
I think it's just a way of trying to trump the Russian play in Iran. Maybe with the hope that as the nukes eased hostilities with the Pakistan it would do the the same with Iran's potential, or as a worst case tend to contain hostilities in the East. Oh I'm jumping to conclusions again – this is about producing electricity.
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash9
I think it's just a way of trying to trump the Russian play in Iran. Maybe with the hope that as the nukes eased hostilities with the Pakistan it would do the the same with Iran's potential, or as a worst case tend to contain hostilities in the East. Oh I'm jumping to conclusions again – this is about producing electricity.
Thats where I'm coming from, real world axis and allies.
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Look north and northeast of India. China. Over a billion people living in an unstable People's Paradise. Any questions?
What makes you think China is any less stable than India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Look southeast of India. Indonesia. A population of a half-billion mostly Muslims in an oil and mineral-rich archipelago consisting of thousands of islands spread over several tens of thousands of square miles. Any questions?
So? Indonesia was very stable until Suharto's era came to an end and it became a democracy, though it's not too bad even now. Democracy doesn't always mean stability. A lot of times it means the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Failing to align with a stable democracy with a demonstrable record of human rights that is virtually surrounded by hostile, jealous, non-democratic countries would be unconscionable.
Humans rights eh? Do some homework on this subject before spewing out crap like that. I guess you haven't heard about their women commonly doused with kerosene and set on fire for "failing" to produce a son or failing to please the husband or in-laws, a crime that's mostly ignored by the Indian law enforcement authorities, some of the most corrupt bunch out there. Or how about children sold by their parents as sex slaves and again ignored by the police. As a democracy India should be ashamed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
I like that idea.

Get everybody else to consume less oil so that we have more to put in the $hitboxes. Wonder if he thought of that by himself??
Well said.
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  #14  
Old 03-03-2006, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC
It is what we can make it to be.

Just a small thought, from an admittedly small mind: Does increasing the number of nuclear reactors worldwide increase the potential for a nuclear accident?
Probably, and from what I’ve read you have neither small thoughts nor a small mind. It would be great if you contributed more often…
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  #15  
Old 03-03-2006, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash9
I think it's just a way of trying to trump the Russian play in Iran. Maybe with the hope that as the nukes eased hostilities with the Pakistan it would do the the same with Iran's potential, or as a worst case tend to contain hostilities in the East. Oh I'm jumping to conclusions again – this is about producing electricity.
From what I’ve read, our gov is in favor of Russia providing nuke development for Iran, if that's what you are referring to?

Is it all the US can do is to provide income from other countries is to sell them tools of WMD and for military purposes? Do we have any commodities other than software and weapons they want?

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