More Spying Revealed: - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

boneheaddoctor · #1 05-12-2006, 09:36 AM

I think the only people worried about phone records are the people who were up to no good. Personally I have nothing to worry about because I was not making calls to people doing things I was not supposed to e doing.

GermanStar · #2 05-12-2006, 09:51 AM

That's right Bone -- freedom is highly overrated...

boneheaddoctor · #3 05-12-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStar

That's right Bone -- freedom is highly overrated...

legal precedent from the 1970s Think it was, long , long before Bush was in office) court case established there is no implicit right to privacy issues with phone records.

Was quoted on the radio this morning....I was driving at the time or I would have written down the case specifics mentioned.

GermanStar · #4 05-12-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

legal precedent from the 1970s Think it was, long , long before Bush was in office) court case established there is no implicit right to privacy issues with phone records.

Was quoted on the radio this morning....I was driving at the time or I would have written down the case specifics mentioned.

Yes I know, and I understand the reasoning behind it. Still, I didn't grow up in a country that data mines and spies on its citizens. I fear the country I grew up in has been vanquished...

kbannister · #5 05-12-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStar

Yes I know, and I understand the reasoning behind it. Still, I didn't grow up in a country that data mines and spies on its citizens. I fear the country I grew up in has been vanquished...

It was...on 09/11/01

GermanStar · #6 05-12-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbannister

It was...on 09/11/01

So, why do you think our government just rolled over and let the terrorists win?

kbannister · #7 05-12-2006, 12:40 PM

Don't know that anybody rolled over. Short of turning this thread totally political, I think we expect faultless protection without allowing any type of interruption or access to our lives.

A few months back there was a "credible" security threat at one of the Baltimore area tunnels. Authorities shut it down causing major traffic delays etc. They were absolutely blasted in the press and on the news for their actions. Had they taken no action and something did blow up, I sure you know what would have happened then.

It seems like at times we sit back and look for ways to dump on the individuals who are in authority, or in the case of some of the polititions find a reason to grandstand.

I don't know how invasive this phone record thing is but in my case, I could care less if that is what it takes to avert another tradegy.

Well, that's my $.02 for what it is worth. I think I'll stick to the tech forums. (no, I am not burying my head in the sand)

mikemover · #8 05-12-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

I think the only people worried about phone records are the people who were up to no good. Personally I have nothing to worry about because I was not making calls to people doing things I was not supposed to e doing.

That is entirely NOT the point. And that "well, it's OK because I'm not up to anything anyway" kind of thinking is exactly the mindset that allows them to slowly chip away at your civil liberties, one bit at a time.

By the time this nation of couch-potatoes look up from their nightly extra-cheese pizza and American Idol watching and notices that something is amiss.... it may be too late.

Mike

boneheaddoctor · #9 05-12-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

That is entirely NOT the point. And that "well, it's OK because I'm not up to anything anyway" kind of thinking is exactly the mindset that allows them to slowly chip away at your civil liberties, one bit at a time.

By the time this nation of couch-potatoes look up from their nightly extra-cheese pizza and American Idol watching and notices that something is amiss.... it may be too late.

Mike

really, there is a legal case that proves phone records are not private. Why would someone be affraid of someone knowing who they have been calling? Perhaps people who are supporting the phone sex business? or those up to no good.

mikemover · #10 05-12-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

really, there is a legal case that proves phone records are not private. Why would someone be affraid of someone knowing who they have been calling? Perhaps people who are supporting the phone sex business? or those up to no good.

Once again, you have missed the point entirely.

I'm not afraid of anyone knowing who I call.

I'm afraid of the mindset and the concept or allowing it in the first place.

Invasion of privacy. Erosion of civil liberties. It's another slippery slope, and we are standing at the top of far too many of those at present.

Also, I didn't say anything about the legality of the government acquiring phone records.

But now I will.....

In all likelihood, it will be proven to be legal under current laws and precedent.

But just because something is currently legal doesn't mean that it SHOULD be. And vice-versa.

Just keep listening to Rush Limbaugh and watching reruns of Survivor, and I'm sure everything will be fine.

Mike

boneheaddoctor · #11 05-12-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

Once again, you have missed the point entirely.

I'm not afraid of anyone knowing who I call.

I'm afraid of the mindset and the concept or allowing it in the first place.

Invasion of privacy. Erosion of civil liberties. It's another slippery slope, and we are standing at the top of far too many of those at present.

Also, I didn't say anything about the legality of the government acquiring phone records.

But now I will.....

In all likelihood, it will be proven to be legal under current laws and precedent.

But just because something is currently legal doesn't mean that it SHOULD be. And vice-versa.

Just keep listening to Rush Limbaugh and watching reruns of Survivor, and I'm sure everything will be fine.

Mike

The fact that the American Criminal Liberties Union has problems with it speaks volumes....they try to give rights to non-americans and pick the wrong side of nearly every argument.

Thats enough reason for me to believe its the right thing to be doing.

After all the feds have your income tax returns......a list of phone calls you make is totally benign in comparison.

mikemover · #12 05-12-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

The fact that the American Criminal Liberties Union has problems with it speaks volumes....they try to give rights to non-americans and pick the wrong side of nearly every argument.

Thats enough reason for me to believe its the right thing to be doing.

After all the feds have your income tax returns......a list of phone calls you make is totally benign in comparison.

Yes, they do have my tax returns. I have a problem with that too, which is why I advocate the FairTax plan instead.

Your knee-jerk reaction to EVERYTHING is really quite tiresome... I don't know why I bother.

But here goes....

The ACLU is not the villainous organization that you and Rush like to pretend they are... Yes, they come down on the wrong side of certain issues, but then again.... so do YOU. They have also fought for the "good guys" in countless situations. If you'd bother to Google it and do a little homework you would learn this, and you would find at least as many reasons to like them as reasons to dislike them, if not more.

But I'm pretty confident that you're not interested in the FACTS, so.... Just keep up the distraction-tactics... It seems to be working for you.

Mike

raymr · #13 05-12-2006, 05:13 PM

In the distant past, smoke signals, use of semaphores, telegraph, and the early days of party line telephones involved participation of at least a third party and were wide open to interception. There was no such thing as a private communication channel except letter writing.

Only with the advent of automated phone equipment decades later was there even a hint of implied privacy. Whether we call it progress or just a by-product of technology, people have come to expect it as a given right, even though the concept of telephone privacy really represents a small time frame of history.

Looks like we are just coming full circle.

boneheaddoctor · #14 05-12-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

Yes, they do have my tax returns. I have a problem with that too, which is why I advocate the FairTax plan instead.

Your knee-jerk reaction to EVERYTHING is really quite tiresome... I don't know why I bother.

But here goes....

The ACLU is not the villainous organization that you and Rush like to pretend they are... Yes, they come down on the wrong side of certain issues, but then again.... so do YOU. They have also fought for the "good guys" in countless situations. If you'd bother to Google it and do a little homework you would learn this, and you would find at least as many reasons to like them as reasons to dislike them, if not more.

But I'm pretty confident that you're not interested in the FACTS, so.... Just keep up the distraction-tactics... It seems to be working for you.

Mike

Refer to the 1979 Supreme court ruling (Under Jimmy Carters term) that clearly spelled out that the phone records are NOT the property of the individual. YOU do not own your phone number you only rent it. The phone company owns it. And there is no implicit right to privacy for that.

450slcguy · #15 05-13-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Why would someone be affraid of someone knowing who they have been calling? Perhaps people who are supporting the phone sex business? or those up to no good.

Obviously you have no regard for personal freedom and privacy. This is AMERICA not the communist Sovet Union. I don't believe it's OK to violate 100 citizens rights to catch one criminal. In that case, America will no longer be a free and just country, but a society that lives in fear of our goverment, and our neighbors. Next thing you know, were gonna have spies on the street writeing down who you talk to, where you go, and what your doing. It's the same idea as these phone records, repression of citizens for the sake of the state.

I don't want to live in a society thats practices "witch hunting" as a way to protect to the country. Gee whiz, maybe this forum is being watch and those of us who question the goverments motives are being investigated. Come and get me, I'm guilty of believing in free speech and personal liberty.