I agree, Bush is spinless. He lets' his rabbit as* overload his bull dog brain. Putin's presence is known the minute he walks into a room, you don't have to see him to know he's arrived.

Which of our American presidents have had this intimidating "presence?"

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

It's not intimidating- it's charismatic and believe it or not Reagan, George Senior, Nixon, Clinton, FDR and Kennedy had it.

If that's the case, what does Putin's black belt and apparent ability to "kick our president's heinie" (OP's position) have to do with it?

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

appearance of weakness. In some cultures the ability to achieve the status of "black belt" is a show of great strength both physically and mentally. Some individuals view this as a great achievement and this show of strength is revered.

I am well aware of the cultural significance of success in the martial arts, I am just befuddled at the sudden emphasis on our leader's ability to physically "kick heinie."

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

You'll have to ask op....

Which is what I'm trying to do

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

Who the hell is OP? Get real man, leadership and brinkmanship require serious cahonnes and people who project that tend to do better at it, if nothing else because more people will give them the benefit of the doubt. I think Sid nailed it about Putin's presence when he walks into a room. He commands more respect than Bush on a gut level. Deny it if you wish, I cannot.

For example, how much of a part do you think Dukakis's infamous "Snoopy" photo in the tank played in his losing to HW Bush? HW lucked out on that one cause his cahonnial quotient wasn't all that high and Clinton cleaned his clock in that category.

We are physical beings.

cmac's law on presidential elections: 9 times out of 10, the geekier guy loses.

**EDIT** Bush and Putin's exchange about democracy in Iraq and Russia.

They had the same footage on the Daily Show with a better close up of Putin when he said it and I have to say, the guy is good. Geo. lost that round badly.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

OP = Original Poster.

I agree on Dukakis' stunt, but BC cleaning HW's clock re: cahonnial quotient? Are you serious?

How can I deny that Putin elicits more respect on your gut level? I didn't and can't. Your gut, your response, fair enough. In fact, I have yet to say that I don't feel the same; I'm just trying to understand why it's so significant that Putin could black-belt GW in submission if need-be.

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

A lot like my take on him. His approach to foreign policy takes the other side's psychology into account much better than many other conservatives, specially the (here it comes) NEO-CONS with whom he is at loggerheads.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Irony abounds.... just stumbled across this:

http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1153216524/Cheney_vs_Putin

Now, there's a takedown I don't buy for a second.

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

That's funny. Sure looked like Putin in profile, didn't it?

I didn't mean it was important that Putin could literally kick Bush's heine. Why are you obsessing on this? He gives the appearance of being more hardy, tougher, more capable. He certainly got the best of Geo. in the exchange about democracy in Iraq being transplanted to Russia. The whole room was laughing, though it was in Russia, of course.

And Bush's tinny comeback, "Just wait!" fell flat.

Clinton had way more manly charm that HW Bush, IMO and I'm betting the country as a whole. HW talked like a dweeb much of the time.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

He needs to wear more earth-tone suits and smile more often. Maybe stick his tongue down his wife's throat, go wind-surfing, have coffee with the folks after shooting at some birds. Aw hell, maybe he can shoot a lawyer/lobbyist, too.

B

Didn't mean to obsess -- I just got sucked in, against my better judgement, to a thread that I perceived to be just another obsession with gratuitous Bush-bashing. The guy's not my favorite, but really, questioning his Jedi-ness or whatever this elusive "presence" is seems silly to me. Regardless, yes, I will agree that Putin seems to have a charm that GW doesn't in the international forum -- hey, who's to say that isn't the reward for years of cunning or underhanded moves of his own, anyway? Regardless, I guess I can agree with the GW/Putin charm issue, but with lesser enthusiasm than you.

As for Clinton/HW, I couldn't disagree more. A WWII pilot vs..... (thinking... thinking... thinking... ) um, a philanderer? Is that what gives you the notion that Clinton was/is "manly?"

__________________
1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)