well, i live here in southern NJ. we are a small place. anyway, one of our major employers here went, well was forced out of business. it was a ford/volvo/chrysler (and just about everything else) dealer (not MB). well, it turns out there was a major fraud being perpetrated, i seems that people were trading in their cars with balances still to be owed in conjunction and as a trade-in on a new car assuming/promised in the deal that the delaership was taking back the car. guess what, among the 'other' frauds going on there, the dealership (in some way that i dont know) never actually did what they promised to do on their end and it has come out that the previous owners of the cars are still legally and financailly obligated to them. WOW imagine trading in your car and buying a new one and finding out that you are not only responsible for your current car but also for one that is long gone.

so i ask, what assurance is the customer ever given that yes, their car has been legally and financially severed from him?

__________________
MIKE
1987 300D Turbo, 225K
124.133/603.960

Wouldn't a rational person ask to see it in writing?

__________________
Audi TT

It probably was, hence the term fraud.

__________________
1959 Gravely LI, 1963 Gravely L8, 1973 Gravely C12
1982 380SL
1978 450 SEL 6.9 euro restoration at 63% and climbing
1987 300 D
2005 CDI European Delivery
2006 CDI Handed down to daughter
2007 GL CDI. Wifes

That's a good question.

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Like most business transactions, if you are dealing with a person or business who is intent on defrauding you, they probably will accomplish that end when it's a complicated transaction such as trading in a vehicle that has a bank note still attached.

In most cases, you sign the title over to the dealership and the dealership must payoff the note and wait several weeks to obtain a clear title. If the dealer fails to do this, the note remains in force and you are responsible for it. You do, technically, still have the title in your name, because the lender will not have released it. So, if you could physically locate the vehicle (unlikely) you could legally "repossess" it.

If you really want to keep your behind covered in this situation, when you initiate the trade-in process you should contact the lender yourself and advise them that you are trading in the vehicle. Make them aware of who you are trading it to and give them the information of who should be in contact with them from the dealer to make the payout arrangments. Then make the dealer aware that you have contacted the lender yourself and have provided them with the information. Let them know you will be following up with the lender to make sure that the necessary information has changed hands to complete the buyout of your finance agreement. Follow up again to make sure it has happened. If it doesn't, notify the police. By letting each party know that you are keeping the other party in the loop, you will increase your chance of success. A dealer who wants to defraud will just move on to another customer who is not as organized, instead of risking the exposure of their fraud scheme.

i was thinking about this and maybe someone could comment. i was under the impression that if a third party buys 'the car' in good faith, expectant that the title is clear (unknowing of any fraud), than the third party ritefully owns the car. isnt it up to the first party (origional car owner) to attack the delaership/business (second party) for thier liability that should have been cancelled when the dealer took the car in? in all of this the third party would maintain ownership and responsibilities of the car.

its the first party who is in the worst shape because they have to expend time and expense to file suit against the business which in effect is probably heaped under such a mountain of manure at this point that the first party has to wait thier turn behind all sorts of other higher creditors clammoring for the remains of the business. on top of that the first party's credit has probably been knocked down too.

__________________
MIKE
1987 300D Turbo, 225K
124.133/603.960

I don't believe the dealer can sell something that he does not own, and, without title to the vehicle, he does not own it.

Now, if the vehicle is in possession of the third party, you probably cannot go and get it. However, the third party isn't going to be able to drive it without a title and a registration. If this is what happened, then both you and the third party are screwed. Somebody has to pay off the lender and obtain the title in order to proceed.

If the vehicle is in possession of the second party, and you could "repossess" it, you can then pay off the note and sell the vehicle. I sincerely doubt that anybody is going to call the police and claim "theft".

What I'm curious about is the signature on the title. The owner of the vehicle (you) must sign the back of the title when the vehicle is transferred. The new owner (third party) will also need to sign the title. Then, and only then, can the title be tendered to DMV for a new one.

The moral of the story is to never do business with shady car dealers.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200