Originally Posted by suginami

After reading your posts, dacia, I think you hate America more than anyone I know.

Sad.

Originally Posted by dacia

Actually, no. If you don’t like what I have to say, you have the option to use the ignore button, prove me wrong or conversely change the channel. What you don’ have the right here is to tell me where I should go.

Alex

Originally Posted by dacia

I bring Rosa ParkS as an example how the Civil War didn’t solve the racial discrimination and inequity once and for all (as you have implied), you claim her as one of your (“white America”) own, I doubt the validity of that assertion and this makes me belittle her? Interesting perspective.
I have never declared that my birthplace was/is free of all social ills, but I also don't force it down on everybody's throath, with never ending devotion, that living in my country is the sollution to all that is wrong in this world.
I didn’t have to “claim” any of those mentioned social ills (cross burning, lynching, slavery, decaffeinated coffee, etc.), they are in your history books. I believe the term “race riots for years” is justified when talking about continuous riots spanning almost a decade. After the 80’s they were not connected to the civil rights movement, however some elements of society seem to have problems with the justice afforded to them in the best country in the world.
United States
Civil Rights and Black Power Movement's Period: 1955 - 1977
• 1964: Harlem, NY
• 1965: Watts
• 1966: Hough Riots, Cleveland, Ohio
• 1967: Detroit
• 1967: Newark
• 1968: Nationwide riots following the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.
• 1969: York, Pennsylvania race riots
• 1970: Jackson State killings
• 1971: Camden, N.J. (1971) - Camden Riots
• 1972: Escambia High riots; Pensacola, Florida
Modern
• 1980: Miami riot
• 1980: Chattanooga riot
• 1992: Los Angeles riots:
• 2001: Cincinnati riots:


That is a rather sad statement made by a citizen of the greatest and most just society on Earth.
In a true democracy the will of the Vox Populi should peacefully prevail (while protecting minorities regardless of the democratic will of the people), it seems that this will was somewhat detrimental to the freedom of certain ethnic groups in the US, hence the black riots for nearly two centuries. I am not sure how Lincoln’s assassination ties in with King’s, unless you want to show that nothing has changed in 100 years because both were shot by racist white people.



I could never make such a claim; I don’t know the minds of all white people in America.
The slavery had “officially” ended after a war between two (mostly)white armies, subsequently laws were enacted to protect the rights of the minority, and white people were involved in the civil rights movement in the 60’s, so the answer is obvious. The slavery issue was brought into the argument to show that, in reality, the US was/is far from being just and equal to all.


I don’t have to, my contention was that as a member of a society as imperfect as the US is, you shouldn’t disparage another whose negative contribution to world peace could never even touch the enormity of the suffering caused by and continue to be caused by your country’s foreign policy.
And since it (the US) is the greatest hope for all man kind, it shouldn’t have to emulate anybody for, according to the statements made by president after president, it is the facto heaven on Earth.


If you had never owned one I am curious where the dislike is coming from. I have owned several Renaults, I found them very reliable and trustworthy, the same which can not be said about the Mercury Capri I had the misfortune of purchasing back in the very late 80’s (thinking what the h*ll, I should support the local economy). Your mileage may vary.

Yes, the constitution is an important safeguard of individual rights, even if it had to evolve, I never claimed otherwise. Of course it was influenced by ideas from that morally corrupt and uppity Europe, but it turned out to be a good piece of work nonetheless.

“Historical influences
In some instances historians disagree on the specific international influences on the overall development of the Constitution, possibly because of the large variety of sources that are available. Several of the ideas in the Constitution were new, and that a large number of ideas were drawn from the literature of republicanism, from the experiences of the 13 states, and from the British experience with mixed government. The most important influence from the European continent was from Charles de Secondat, Baron de Montesquieu. who emphasized the need to have balanced forces pushing against each other to prevent tryanny. (This in itself reflects the influence of Polybius' second century BC treatise on the checks and balances of the constitution of the Roman Republic). John Locke is known to be a mild influence, and the due process clause of the United States Constitution was partly based on common law stretching back to the Magna Carta of 1215.”

“Bill of Rights
The United States Bill of Rights were the ten amendments added to the Constitution in 1791, as the supporters had promised opponents during the debates of 1788. The English Bill of Rights (1689) was an inspiration for the American Bill of Rights. For example, both require jury trials, contain a right to bear arms, and prohibit excessive bail and of “cruel and unusual punishments.” Many liberties protected by state constitutions and the Virginia Declaration of Rights were incorporated into the United States Bill of Rights”

Actually, no. If you don’t like what I have to say, you have the option to use the ignore button, prove me wrong or conversely change the channel. What you don’ have the right here is to tell me where I should go.

I am not sure who “promised” you that land, but you did not “fight” and “win”, "slaughter" and "exterminate" would be the better choice of words.
Now would among those “bottom feeders”, “failures in their cesspool" included your ancestors as well, or just the people who came after you were born?
Or perhaps I completely misunderstood the meaning of that statement?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
I read this a couple of years ago, on some island, on a statue given by that pesky, cheese munching, wine sucking, beret wearing, tricolor waiving Gallic Rooster, is it not there anymore?

Alex

Originally Posted by suginami

After finishing my bowl of corn flakes, rinsing out the bowl and loading the dishwasher, I grabbed my cup of tea and walked into my home office to get to work, and the following thought ocurred to me.

Dacia, I find it peculiar that you know so much and have so many historical references about a country that you loathe and abhor.

What are you? A U.S. history professor?

Or are you just great at doing Google searches?

Originally Posted by A264172

The crimes of the mosquito will always pale when compared with the crimes of the lion.

Originally Posted by LaRondo

I recommend Key Largo at sundown ....

Originally Posted by LaRondo

It is not unusual for people outside the US knowing more about this country than the average US citizen ...

Originally Posted by PaulC

Anyway, Merry Christmas!

Originally Posted by aklim

And sometimes, that "wise man" also gets his throat slit by his enemies.

As opposed to you spitting on it? Seems like that is a common phrase with you. Once again, I don't say that this place is perfect. It just happens to be the best one I can find, hence I am here. If it wasn't, I'd be there, where ever "there" might be. You, OTOH, seem to be constantly implying, from your posts, that only evil comes when the flag is raised. Therefore, my challenge to you is to find another place where only goodness gushes from it and let me know about it.

Originally Posted by aklim

Might or Might not. Don't eat the menu.

Originally Posted by dacia

True, human history is about conquest, but I never claimed that my people were the lightning rod for humanity.
Americans on the other hand:

“All too often, politicians rally their audience with inflated claims of American greatness. The United States is "the greatest country in the world." At other times, it is "the greatest country ever," "the greatest country ever conceived," or "the greatest country in the history of mankind." When the exuberance soars, America also "kicks ass!"

Nearly as often, one hears of the United States as the great Samaritan: second to none at 'civilizing' half-breed races. In the words of Abraham Lincoln, the United States is the "the last best hope of mankind," no less. More frequently, it is "the shining beacon on the hill." Recently, John Kerry, Democratic Presidential candidate, roused students at UCLA, "I believe we can bring a real victory in the War on Terror. I believe we must, not only for ourselves but for all who look to America as the last best hope of earth." I have to wonder if the Vietnamese civilians killed by Kerry and his crew also looked upon them as "the last best hope of earth."”
http://www.counterpunch.org/alam03232004.html
Alex

Originally Posted by cmac2012

...The notion that we're the greatest in the world is widespread (here anyway), and the flag was poorly used in Vietnam and Nicaragua in my lifetime....

Originally Posted by Botnst

It was abused by cowards in the first instance and properly deployed in the second.

Ha!