Typical MM "documentary" - I horked a copy online last week and watched it.

Lots of hyperbole, completely inadequate analysis, incomplete facts, and everything is obviously portrayed to bolster his pre-existing opinions. Anyone who has seen a MM film should not be surprised.

I'm not suggesting valid points were not raised - they certainly were. However, the film would have been much more convincing and universally accepted were the mouthpiece/producer somebody else.

One thing I was glad to see in the flick - more satisfied Canadian input. A few years ago, I was drinking the anti-socialized medicine KoolAid, frequently using our neighbors to the north as examples of how it sucks. One would hear of long waits and insufficient/inadequate services, and the occasional "story" of the Canadian heading south of the border to get quality care for something critical.

I've pretty much changed my opinion on the above...having met numerous Canadians over the last couple of years through a boating group, including several senior citizens with regular medical needs, they are pretty universal in their praise of the system. None of the concerns I'd heard of down here were confirmed.

Not at all D! If it were directed at you I'd have quoted you. I always quote the quoter(?) to avoid that confusion but it only seems to work in my head

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

Our system doesn't suck, but its no paradise. My dad waited 6 months for a quadrouple bypass and he was on the emergency waiting list. My best friends took their 3 month old baby to their GP because she had an ear infection. The GP wanted to send the baby to an ear specialist. There was a three month wait to see the specialist.

Some docs and patients have learned how to play the system, and occassionally people get lucky with timing and it works out very well for them. For the rest of us its not like we're really suffering with it, but frankly for the amount of taxes I pay, (half of each provinces total budgets go to health care), I'd expect a heck of a lot more. Reading what some of you pay in health insurance, if I take what I paid in taxes, just the portion that goes to health care, I would have paid double what Howitzer said his insurance cost'(I assume that was for his whole family). Throw in my wife's taxes and you're now close to three times that. If by some stretch of the imagination what we have here is better than what you guys have in the US we certainly pay for it. The worst thing is that we don't have the option to opt out, and we also don't have the option to pay for something better out of pocket if we can afford it. Everybody gets the lowest common denominator.

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Jason Priest
1999 E430
1995 E420 - retired
1986 420SEL - retired

I haven't had any cause to complain about the Canadian system. Every time I've needed it or had a family member need it, it has been there and reasonably quickly. A number of years ago I decided to go through some testing for Multiple Sclerosis. The longest part of the process was getting an appointment with my family doctor as her hours are simply terrible. After the initial appointment I had referrals to a genetic specialist as well as a neurologist, both of these appointments taking place within a couple of weeks of my appointment with the GP. My neurologist booked follow-up testing immediately, which included an elective MRI on less than a week's notice. Keep in mind, I wasn't displaying symptoms in any respect. I just have a strong family history of the disease. I couldn't believe how fast I got through and got my results, which were thankfully negative.

There is definitely room to improve, I'm not saying otherwise. But it isn't the mess that the media would have us believe.

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Jonathan

2011 Mazda2
2000 E320 4Matic Wagon
1994 C280 (retired)

From where are your taxes collected? Are they a fixed percentage of something (income, property value, sales tax, etc.), or simply taken out of a larger tax pie from one of these sources?

I've no doubt there may be instances where one might be paying more in your country than down here. But, taking the Canadian population as a whole, do you believe your per capita expenses are higher, when compared to the insured population down here?

Setting aside quality of care and cost, one of the main problems your system seems to address is the adversarial relationship that exists between insurers and covered patients. I'm no MM fan, but one valid issue he raises is the length insurers will go to to deny coverage, and cancel policies - AFTER a claim has been submitted. I know this to be routine practice down here, having many relatives and friends in the medical profession. It's an incredibly corrupt system, that takes advantage of patients - people who have PAID huge sums in premiums - when they are at their most vulnerable.

MM, does not take any jabs at doctors or nurses his beef is with the Pharm and private health insurance industry.

I wonder when Americans are going to figure out that the primary goal of insurance companies is to take your money and not pay claims.

Health care is funded out of general tax revenues, which includes both income taxes and sales taxes. Sales taxes are fixed, but income tax is "progressive" the more you make the more you pay. The top tax bracket in Ontario is 46.4% which does not include our Canada Pension or Employment Insurance. People with low or no income pay next to nothing in income taxes and therefore they're getting a really good deal on the health care system.

Here's an interesting link to a PDF. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/pubs/expen-depens/2001-exp-depen-1980/index_e.html

Page 26 has some per capita info for the 2001-2004 years.

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Jason Priest
1999 E430
1995 E420 - retired
1986 420SEL - retired

As a small business owner, I would like nothing more than to have the health insurance costs for 25 employees and their families off our books. But our out-of-pocket expense would merely shift from the insurance company to the IRS, though, because the feds aren't going to do it for less money. And if it doesn't come out of our bottom line, it will come from our employees'.

Would this be another one of those untouchable (yet seemingly non-existent) "lock boxes" like they have for Social Security and education?

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

That is not far from our 38% and medicare tax.

This is a very insightful point

Ha!

Best thing to happen would be to rid all corporations & gov of the burden of insuring employees. Let everybody self-insure and let the market work.

B

Wow. Brain Fart. I though that it was MedMechs sicko coming out....



Hehehe. Sorry Howitzer.

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-Justin

91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd
01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd
07 MB ML320 CDI - dd
16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd

it's automatic.

^^^^ Me too!

Society needs people like me rollin the $$$ to make things work but if health care brings me to my knee's we have a problem. Micheal Moore should have interviewed me, I am a disabled veteran who's father invented one of the most used and successful surgeries today, if it I did not have access to his clout I would be thrown into the heap with the regular folks.

make no mistake I agree with the other MM 100% on the issue.