slipform stone masonry - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jordan G · #1 12-05-2007, 08:07 AM

Anyone here have any experience with this? Being the eclectic group that it is.....and after reading Hattie's modular thread and the Bucky dome thread from several weeks ago - I thought I'd throw it out there.

http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/masonry.htm

Basically it involves building the typical concrete wall form, lining the outer face with stone.....and pouring a reinforced wythe on the inside. Just move the forms up as you go. You'd get straight, true walls - relatively quick and don't need the specific skills of a stone-mason. At least, this is what I've gathered.

Here's the story behind it all- admittedly half-baked in my head right now. My mother-in-law is a widow, currently living on 5+ acres of prime woodland in a highly desirable area of Lancaster County, PA. It's a partially restored log home (updated HVAC, central vac, new well, etc.), beautiful orchard, great soil, bounded by the town's reservoir/watershed - so no neighboring development looming, etc. Frankly, it's WAY too much for her to care for by herself and she's close to retirement age. She's indicated the possibility of building a "cabin kit" type home on the back corner of her lot - and letting my family (wife and 3 girls) move into the log home. I currently live in a town house with 3 bedrooms - so this move would be symbiotic for both of us (she's a great lady - super laid back - I don't anticipate any MIL horror stories here).

So I've been tossing around ideas in my head......and I've always been itching to try something different like this. I'm thinking something small, rectangular footprint, 1 level - maybe 1500-2000 sq. ft? The durability, uniqueness, thermal qualities are quite appealing. She's a unique lady and I can't picture here in a little home with vinyl siding.

Obviously - time/labor would be the biggest issue here. I don't have loads of free time in my schedule (Benz takes all that) and I can envision this job taking years for a quasi-DIY'er.

So my long-winded question is this - has anybody seen/tried it before? Even maybe for a retaining wall or something?

Whiskeydan · #2 12-05-2007, 09:51 AM

I don't see how uninsulated masonry walls could be very energy efficient in that climate.
Ever consider strawbale?

Hey, I like the "pay me $500 to come learn how to build my house" idea.
I may have to try that.

I broke ground yesterday on the shop pad after having 600 feet of drive installed. The 30x40' metal shop will go up first house will follow.

After considering many types of construction I have decided to build the house with 2x6 framed walls as this will be the fastest, most cost effective solution. I hope to include some masonry interior walls for thermal mass.

The basement hole is about four feet deep so far. Rock at that depth is getting hard. Looking to rent/buy a hydraulic hammer for breaking it up.
This is where a class would come in handy.

Jordan G · #3 12-05-2007, 10:00 AM

That's the redundant part about it too.....you'd probably still end up framing/sheetrocking parts of the inside, potentially with some insulation.

I was hoping you'd chime in, I remembered reading your roof thread too awhile back.

I was envisioning mostly glass on the south wall (overlooks beautiful farmland) and have the north wall below grade (sloping site).....so really I'd only be slipforming/insulating two walls. With all the thermal mass in that thing.....I was hoping it would hold alot of the solar heat and have a nice ol' woodstove in the middle (no ductwork).

Just a simple, standing seam metal roof, sloped to back....catching her rainwater in a cistern or something.

Again....maybe I'm just dreaming.

tankdriver · #4 12-05-2007, 07:27 PM

I have never tried it, but the stone facing process should work fine.
I do know that in France and especially in India, they build with concrete walls and when it's ~60 degrees (dead of winter in India) it's much warmer outside of the house than in it.

Hammertime · #5 12-05-2007, 08:21 PM

I once lived in Connecticut about ten years ago. I had a home that I did this stone work to but it was not new construction. I wouldn't say the work was easy and a "no-brainer" as it does take skill to be able to blend many different size rock for a uniform look. I was using bluestone. The skill comes also on corners and continuity.

I had about 700 linear ft to do and with a mason and an apprentice we finished in a month. and a half This was also working 3-4 days a week on the project. I got a deal on the stone from upstate NY, I am sure in Lancaster you could find a good supply also. The mason was a family member here from Europe for the summer. Feeding him was my greatest cost..but I had him with me there anyway so this job just happened weekend warrior style...

My home had a problem of feeling VERY cold and at times damp especially in the basement. The pitch went from the front of the home showing no foundation the back of home showing 9 ft of foundation wall.

We made a trench a foot and a halfway from the existing foundation and that is where our wall began. The wall would end up being about 10-12 inches thick continually. This left a gap between both walls that we excavated and put down about a foot of pea stone to cover drainage pipes. We then stuffed a STO type foam product in between walls and finished. We fished off the job by going behind the red clapboard with copper flashing sheet after we closed off the top of the wall.

Summary...
Not a fun undertaking! I would NOT do this unless you are going to stay there a while to enjoy the benefit. It did help my home a lot as it was now warmer, classier and drier. However soon after I had to relocate for a job to Texas so I wouldn't say I would do it again myself. It was heavy work. Up where you are you really have only 7 mos or so of building weather, for a dabbler it is BIG job. Unless of course global warming kick in...

Hope this help..

t walgamuth · #6 12-05-2007, 11:51 PM

There is nothing that can touch the 2x6 stud wall with fiberglass insulation for ease of construction, energy efficiency and comfort at any close cost. Put in the best windows you can afford, yes, very large ones facing south for passive solar gain, and put 16" of fiberglass blowing wool in the attic. If you want more energy effeciency an earth berm on the n, e, and west sides would improve effeciency too. Use a 2' overhang and your south glass will be shaded in the hottest part of the summer, too.

Good luck.

Tom W

Jordan G · #7 12-06-2007, 08:47 AM

Thanks for replies guys.....I do appreciate the insight. I guess I just need to get off the fence and make some decisions.

Totally agree with you Hammertime - I'd only do this if our long term plan is to stay there. I can't imagine undertaking something like this only to move away.

And no doubt Tom.....I may very well end up stick framing this thing too. It's certainly the more realistic approach.....I was just dreaming about something unique.....and to tie into the earthy, organic look of the existing log house too.

t walgamuth · #8 12-06-2007, 09:23 AM

The rustic feel of a log cabin is hard to beat.

As an inexpensive alternative to conventional stick framing it fails, if normal levels of finish and so forth are expected.

Tom W

Hammertime · #9 12-07-2007, 05:38 PM

I wanted to add a final note on this issue. My problem was that I had a cold and damp basement. This process allowed me to reclaim that space and make it a comfortable family room from what was unusable space.

I am sure for aesthetic purposes you can have a facade put on which wil be easier and less expensive than what I had done.