Glad you liked them, I can think of a lot better cars to get for $18k.

My 80 year old grandfather wants one, thats all I have to say on that topic.

Anyway with gas coming up on $4 and soon $5 a gallon, I don't think many people are going to be interested in 30 year old designed RWD full frame sedans.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

As far as I know, MBUSA is a "high end, niche company" because that MB's USA marketing strategy. They EPA and DOT certify, and import, mostly the high end of their product line, and keep their prices up by having lower volume. Worldwide, MB has a lot more "bread-and-butter" offerings we don't see here.

Anyhow, can we agree that MBUSA is smaller than Ford's Lincoln-Mercury Division? This could help explain how Ford may have more problems, since they face more competition from "Japanese" brands in a larger market. Of course, MB, selling their cars through MBUSA as a US niche specialty, has to worry about Lexus and Infiniti, but nobody has speculated that MB will be going out of business soon. That might be a topic for another thread.

Perhaps an explanation of the problem is that GM, Chrysler and Ford are really, really big companies that sell most of their product here in the USA! They have been manufacturing and selling in this market longer, so they have a workforce history that goes back generations. They are not in position to turn around over night, and they won't just fold up their tents and disappear.

So, back On Topic.

Can Detroit Stop Its Slide in 2008? I guess we'll have to watch the financial pages to find out for sure, won't we.

Um Hattie, except for that detail about full frame, that describes most of the MB offerings up through the W126 body...

Great cars, but kinda' slow in the styling change department.

I think that GM is in the best position of the three. From a financial perspective I have not studied their balance sheet but I do know that at least they are sitting on a tremendous amount of cash.

GM is also making some pretty decent cars right now, and they are really improving their product. If I was in the market for a brand new car, there are several models - particularly from Cadillac and Buick - that I think would bear some very close investigation.

I think that the product offerings from Ford and Chrysler are very weak - particularly Chrysler. I'd like to see who was in charge of the Dodge Caliber or the Dodge Nitro and said "...yeah, you know, that looks great! We should build THAT!"

IMHO GM is building the best cars of the Big Three and I also believe they are building some of the best cars they've built since the very early 1970s.

That is all true. I briefly thought about picking up a new one of them, last spring and summer, and in the end, finally decided not to do it.

Instead I committed to restoring the Mercedes 560SEC to a car in as good a condition as possible, and never looked back.

I'm quite pleased I did. I'll be even more happy when the new Remus exhaust is installed on it. I just paid for it today, scored probably the last US spec W126 one left in the United States.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

My W126 is more advanced than a 2008 Ford Crown Vic. It doesn't have a live rear axle or a push rod V8 for starters. Not to mention its built many times better, and anyone who challanges that is full of it.

Other then the fact that the new S550 has a V8 in the front that drivers the rear wheels nothing is similer to a Ford. Also at the $100k price point people are not sensitive to fuel costs.

Chrysler is going to be broken up and sold, Ford is a sad sight thats just waiting for the bullit to end it all. GM will continue to do well, they are getting it, they are starting to sell cars that people will want to buy.

I couldn't care less, they built junk for 20 years they are reaping what the sowed.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I'm just reading this thread from here on out until it ends.

Why?

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

I just hope I never get that old or senile, that I resort to ever start buying Mercury Marquis' OR Ford Crown Victorias for any transportation need........Let Us Pray.......!

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'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

Jim,

I thought the tag line..."DECEASED"...was funny!

Thinking only of the std. Lincoln Town Car, it's my hunch that the age of the average buyer is well north of 60. I can't find info on car buyers ages, so I may well be wrong. Nevertheless, I agree with Hatt that those type of cars, regardless of how durable or reasonably priced new or used are not the wave of future in auto's

I bought my first Ford when I was around 40 too. To be precise, I was 42 when I bought a new '87 Ford T-Bird LX White, red interior. Nice car. Auto everything. Ran great for 10 years. Replacing the cats was about the most expensive repair I experienced. I think they were 400 apiece. Got rid of it after 144,000 mostly trouble free miles to buy my first MB..the late 190E.

Indeed, with age comes wisdom. Also, with age comes larger waist lines, aching joints and lower metabolism. Thus, the appeal of the larger 4 door sedans with a lot of folks, like us, over 60.

Thanks for including me in with younger guys!

Hope you are getting thru the storms slamming the west as I write this.

JimM.

Edit:

I forgot to mention the huge tax advantage Congress gave to vehicles with a GVW over 6,000 lbs. Up to 100% write off in 1st year for business property. Not too bad when Uncle Sam and the states picks up about 40-45 of the cost thru tax savings. The standard size sedan owner gets much smaller annual writeoffs! Congress could fix this tomorrow, yet...

I have been driving an S class since I was 17 so I already have an old farts car. Its to late!

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Thank you! I suppose a Townhouse would make a better investment than a Towncar from a financial point of view, but as a mile per dollar proposition little out there beats them for American roads and freeways; their proven design makes them anvil reliable, and the overall cost to run makes them cheaper than ANY Honda Accord, VW bug or any other car you can put up against them.

They are NOT as safe as a Mercedes or even a Volvo, but they are quite good.

Nobody ever accused them of having "soul", and they do NOT put a smile on you face like an old Mercedes diesel, a big W126, or an SL.

Not to mention they corner like a brick going sideways, and have the road feel of a balloon going down a river.

Very likely that they are no longer on "the cutting edge" but as a tool of transportation, the R & D and tooling costs have LONG been recouped, and every one sold is PURE profit for FoMoCo.

They tried to make a "Hot Rod") the 300 hp Marauder, but it was a flop, and poorly marketed, but the ones out there in fact ARE in vogue with a narrow market of practical muscle car lovers, and the resale on them is quite high.

The storms were awful here in the foothills of the Sierra, and yesterday we had a "Mini Toronado" and tghe only damage I suffered was that my garbage can out for trash collection day, got whipped away completely and I have NO idea where it went.

For someone who'd never seen a snowflake till 25 years old, it was pretty amazing to see so much snow around.

It was in anticipation of things like this, that was one reason I forewent a Grand Marquis and got this Subaru Outback awd wagon.

At midnight last night I went out in the snow and practiced driving on the snow covered roads around here. Went slow and carefully, and in 2nd and 3rd gear mostly, and discovered WHY the Outback ( a niche car) sells so well around here, it does great in the snow, I was really impressed.

I am probably going to keep it. For dollar for mile cost, it is pretty close to a Grand Marquis, and makes VERY polite noises at the gas pumps.

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

It's not, when you have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel!!!

.
Well, I am still in 50s, but I understand what you are saying.

It is stupid, but I guess you can just accept it as what it was, just a nice Christmas present for automakers to boost SUV sales and reward Republican voters.

I knew a guy who bought one, a Lincoln Aviator. He owned a auto paint franchise in Cntral California, and didn't need another vehicle at all.

But when you can get a brand new Lincoln Aviator, and instantly and legally write off over $25,000 on your taxes, as a small business owner, how could you say no?

Didn't hurt the feelings of the Ford Dealer over in Hanford (Kings County) with a purchase like that either.

I drove it once, and it was lots of fun, real luxury, a kick in the azz.

Good way to keep Republicans in the fold too. Clever move by GWB.

Starvation is God's way of punishing those who have no faith in capitalism, anyway, right?

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

IIRC it started as a tax break for small business owners and morphed into this. Problem is that when congress gets involved, you never know what is coming out. If you value your good life, KEEP CONGRESS OUT of your life. Don't ask them to do anything or you will regret what comes out.

IMO, that was the excuse he used. If you cannot make it work financially, a business owner should NOT do it. All it did was lowered his taxes by a fraction of $25K not take it off altogether by changing the taxable amount, AFAIK. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

GWB did that? Did he sign the bill congress wrote or did he write it and sign it himself?

Yes.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I was once told by an accountant to buy something for your business if you need it, but don't buy something just for the write off.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200