380SEC questions - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

KylePavao · #1 01-06-2008, 09:32 PM

Hey guys,

Haven't posted in a while. Then again, haven't had any problems. Always good I suppose. Anyways, I have a lead on a cheap 380SEC. Real cheap. Interior nice, exterior has a few small dings and nices a good waxing. Owner said his kid didn't want it as a first car. Whats the deal with the 380 engines? I've heard horror stories, but I still see a lot on the road. And I am in love with the W126 coupe body. Hell a 560 would be fine too, but too expensive and way too thirsty. I like the old school bundt look anyway. Help me out?

Regards,
Kyle

Jim B. · #2 01-06-2008, 09:49 PM

The one thing to really watch out for, other than rust, and leaks at the bottom of the rear window, that can be a horror, is Mercedes' mistake on the 1982-early/mid (US version only) 1984 single-row timing chains.

They tended to break and cause mischief when when the tensioner let go, the chain slipped and the engine then grenaded.

The Euro spec ones all had the double row chain though. Even though I co-wrote this back in 1998, it is still considered the definitive buyers guide today on these cars.

http://www.mbcoupes.com/buyersguide/buyersguide.htm

Many of the 380SECs with single row timing chains have been converted over to the double row chain (Mercedes did it for free for a while under a "secret warranty" campaign, now long discontinued.

Other than the relatively lazy hp figures, which make it a leisurely car compared to the 500 and 560 engine SEC, they are durable, safel comfortable, sexy and stylish and long lived cars if kept up.

Autoweek tested a high mile one of them that belonged to some shoe salesman in Nebraska that bought a new one because he could not take his samples on an airplane, for a month, and liked it.

A few years it turned up at a Cleveland car show, I read.

It had 925,000 miles on it.

Dee8go · #3 01-07-2008, 08:20 AM

If you're ambitious, you could always buy it and look for a 500 or a 560 to put into it. Somebody on either the diesel or the performance sections was putting a diesel engine on one.

pj67coll · #4 01-07-2008, 12:40 PM

All 380's planet wide debuted with the single row chain. Not just the US ones. It was a disaster world wide. The double row conversion takes care of that though.

- Peter.

Jim B. · #5 01-07-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

All 380's planet wide debuted with the single row chain. Not just the US ones. It was a disaster world wide. The double row conversion takes care of that though.

- Peter.

That is not true. Only the US versions had them, and not for long.

pj67coll · #6 01-08-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

That is not true. Only the US versions had them, and not for long.

Where do you get that quaint piece of misinformation from? I grew up in South Africa and recall the 380's throwing their single row chains left and right.

- Peter.

Jim B. · #7 01-08-2008, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go

If you're ambitious, you could always buy it and look for a 500 or a 560 to put into it.

Yes you could, but why? It would be VERY expensive, and difficult. Much more so than you would think.

A LOT more cost effective to simply buy a 560SEC. The prices are in the basement for them, these days (due to the price of fuel) and you can get nice ones for amazing prices these days.

Plus, every 560SEC would give you the updated body, wheel and interior 2nd generation upgrades, not to mention things like ABS, airbag, 3rd brake light and all the other good things the earlier ones did not have.

Quote:

Somebody on either the diesel or the performance sections was putting a diesel engine on one.

That's right, it was ICEMAN from Canada. It is NOT easy; (the engine is taller than the V8s, and difficult to fit without touching or cutting the hood.)

Also, the SEC is a high speed touring coupe, a GT (Grand Tourer in the truest sense of the wordl) and a diesel engine is incompatible with that zeitgeist.

The discussion came up -

"Put a diesel engine in an SEC? Who'd want to do that? That'd be like cutting its balls off!!"

"Yeah, I understand what you mean. My ex-wife did that to me!!"

Dee8go · #8 01-07-2008, 01:09 PM

I believe even the 500's had a single row chain at first, didn't they?

Jim B. · #9 01-07-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go

I believe even the 500's had a single row chain at first, didn't they?

No.

Dee8go · #10 01-07-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

No.

Well, I wouldn't presume to question your knowledge of SEC's, Jim, but I thought I had read that somewhere.

PaulC · #11 01-07-2008, 04:39 PM

If I recall correctly, the Euro 3.8's even had a different bore and stroke than the US-bound 3.8's.

Whiskeydan · #12 01-07-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

If I recall correctly, the Euro 3.8's even had a different bore and stroke than the US-bound 3.8's.

Nope. Same bore and stroke however, different compression and cams makes the US and euro 380s drive totally different. I still have a euro 380SE and it will eat the US 380SE for lunch. Plus it averages 21-22mpg.

Its also for sale.

Hatterasguy · #13 01-07-2008, 11:26 PM

If you can get it cheap enough go for it, but they were a dud compared to the 500SEC's.

Like the E320's you always rip on.

PaulC · #14 01-07-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeydan

Nope. Same bore and stroke however, different compression and cams makes the US and euro 380s drive totally different. I still have a euro 380SE and it will eat the US 380SE for lunch. Plus it averages 21-22mpg.

Its also for sale.

Dan,

I dug into my Mercedes archives and found a copy of a January 1981 Road & Track road test of the 380 SEL. According to the article (which may not be correct) the US-spec 3.8 had a bore x stroke of 88.0 mm x 78.9 mm for a displacement of 3,839 cc; whereas the Euro engine had a bore x stroke of 92.0 mm x 71.8 mm for a displacement of 3,818 cc. The stated reason for this was that the longer stroke of the US motor was an advantage for emission control. The US engine put out a rompin' stompin' 155 hp, while the Euro put out 218.

Whiskeydan · #15 01-08-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

Dan,

I dug into my Mercedes archives and found a copy of a January 1981 Road & Track road test of the 380 SEL. According to the article (which may not be correct) the US-spec 3.8 had a bore x stroke of 88.0 mm x 78.9 mm for a displacement of 3,839 cc; whereas the Euro engine had a bore x stroke of 92.0 mm x 71.8 mm for a displacement of 3,818 cc. The stated reason for this was that the longer stroke of the US motor was an advantage for emission control. The US engine put out a rompin' stompin' 155 hp, while the Euro put out 218.

Interesting...

I've owned both US spec and euro 1985 380SEs. The US spec car was a bit more responsive just off idle than the euro. Around 2000-2500 rpm the euro car pulls to redline nearly as hard as the 500SEL I had. US car was a dog and getting totalled was the best thing that ever happened.
I've owned the euro SE for about 15 yrs now. Very pleased with its performance and great fuel mileage.

BTW, My manual shows the 116,961 engine in '81-83 models and 116.963 from '83 up. All "SEC" cars show to have the .963 engine. Could the .963 possibly indicate a dual row chain?

Easy enough to pull the left side cam cover. Good idea to inspect the cam for wear also.