Are they not free to vote any or all of the directors out?

..........in theory..........it could possibly happen. In practice, no.........the directors generally do what they want..........unless there is a very large voting bloc. Some pension funds had managed to get some leverage regarding forcing certain Boards, but it's very rare.

You hold an idealistic sense of how a corporation operates.........just like many conservative members of this board. Unfortunately, it's not reality.

Indeed. Safety and fuel regulations are two things I'm actually glad the government got involved in. There are some things that consumers can demand in a free market. Then there are other things that require a large, sustained, and concerted effort to make happen.

__________________
1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

I was thinking about his issue. I wonder how the folks who advocate that the consumer should be responsible for his purchases would fare with food.

Let's say we eliminate all government standards for food. The chicken and beef processors can operate with reckless abandon and whatever shows up on the store shelves will be fine............the consumer will be able to discern if he's purchasing a tainted product or not. Remember, that consumer is very knowledgeable and he can certainly reject any poultry with excessive campylobacter............don't need no government intervention in my food...............


And, you mention safety. We've got to eliminate OSHA. They cause havoc for all business in a vailiant attempt to comply with the onerous regulations. It's the responsibility of the employee to ensure that he's got a safe working environment. If he sees an unsafe condition...........and naturally, he's smart enough to know it in advance...........he simply advises his employer and the employer will fix it immediately. If the employer doesn't fix it, the employee will just walk out of the plant and get another job down the street. The company with the unsafe conditions won't have any employees because they will all walk right out the door...........naturally.

------------------------------------

You show me a company who's only goal is to make a profit,
I will show you a company that will go out of business.

Even the crack dealer down the street has to sell crack that will not immediately kill his customers.

And if you want to sell goods and services to many people in the US you have to adhere to much stricter ideals, like the new Fair Trade ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

Some of us give a siht about other people.
Some of us understand it is not all about making money.

Money really cannot buy us much peace, contentment, happiness, freedom, serenity, compassion.
And these are the true things that make the world go around.

There is a different way !!

And it is up to us to make the world the way we want it to be.
Not the government, not businesses, or anyone else.
You have the choice.

Every dollar you spend, is a choice.
Do you want it to further the greed, gluttony, and corruption of some businesses ?
Or do you want to try to make this world a better place,
for yourself, your neighbor, and your children.

The choice is yours.



Thank You
Have Fun !
RichC


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__________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

Using that example, it is about making money. Dead customers don't pay. Therefore, as a crack dealer, I need to make sure you are alive so you can keep giving me money for crack. What's your point?

Maybe not but it can make a damn good facsimile of it. I'll take it if you don't want it.

And I thought the hippies were all long gone. What next? Hold hands around the fire and sing Kumbaya?

Sure. Why not.

Who defines "better"? Give me the money and it will be better for me.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

That is my point.
Many of the things that Exxon is doing is killing people.
Maybe not directly, but defiantly indirectly.
People are having to make choices between health care and buying enough gas to get to work.
Dead people cannot buy gas.

Money will only buy you fleeting happiness.
Then you will be worse off than what you were.
And still owe for the things you bought.

Most people, when reaching the top of the ladder of success.
Realize that they have leaned it against the wrong wall. --Joseph Campbell

I am, who I am.
I do not follow.
I make decisions for myself.
I listen to my own conscience.
And above all else I am true to myself.
If you decide that you think I fit the characteristics of a hippy,
so be it.
Your opinion of me does not change the reality.

Thanks
RichC
Have Fun !


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__________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

Hospitals kill people too.
Dairy farmers kill people.
Fishermen kill people.
Drivers kill people.
Peanut Farmers kill people.
Wheat farmers kill people.
Chicken growers kill people.
Computer manufacturers kill people.

All defiantly indirectly.

I'm sure those PEOPLE that work for or run EM come to work everyday looking for who to kill next, just like those above.

__________________
Thank You!
Fred
2009 ML350
2004 SL600
2004 SL500
1996 SL600
2002 SLK32
2005 CLK320 cabrio
2003 ML350
1997 C280 Sport

If you do not care if you kill people you are considered evil.
If you accidentally kill someone, it is just that, an accident.
It does not make you evil.

The difference is in the intention.

The end result can be the same.

If your intention is to do harm, that is the definition of evil.

Is everyone that has ever been involved in an auto accident where someone died evil ?
No.

Is someone that purposely runs over someone with a car evil ?
Yes.

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__________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

This is a bit ridiculous. If Exxon made no profit and the price of gasoline dropped by $.10 per gallon.........do you really think those same people can now purchase health care with the savings that was generated??

Get a clue Rich. Exxon is not the problem here. The cost of fuel starts with the barrel price over in the Middle East. At $95.00 per barrell............there is NFW that you're going to ever see $2.00 gasoline here. And, even if you did..........the $1.00 savings will still not allow those same people to buy health care.

I would think that Exxon might bear a little responsibility if one of their captains, due to either drunkenness or incompetence, deposits a few hundred thousands barrels of crude all over that shipping lane.

Are you saying it was the shipping lane that tripped up Hazlequist, or whatever his name was?

Drilling in the arctic has a little to do with degradation of wildlands, Exxon or otherwise.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Of course they're unchanged. Morality for a business is to make money.[/QUOTE]Superglue keeps them blinders on good, eh?

What if the making of money almost insures that actual income, even over a relatively short period, say the next 10 or 20 years, on that particular bit of real estate will shrivel up?

I mean, good lord, that one of the hallmarks of intelligence I would think: to not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Lifted? Obesity and reduced individual skill levels seem to follow excessive affluence. What's excessive? Tough one to answer.

And this notion of acquired wealth is a tricky one. What is wealth?

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

That's an issue of captain competency, not shipping lane safety.

Go back and read what RichC said.

B

Yes, I agree that the price of oil is higher.
The price is really not the issue I was meaning to talk about.
But the ethics of Exxon. Screwing every penny they can out of people.
Causing lots of harm, and making the poor even worse off.

If people did not invest in Exxon, or buy their other products (which are many).
They would be forced to change or go out of business.

We are ultimately responsible.

One of the other things I am trying to say is that money is not the highest goal.
I think compassion is a better one.


Thanks
RichC
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__________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix