First people say that there are a bunch of people who depend on this money. Now you say it doesn't make you dependent. Which is it?

Here is another way. DIY

There you go again. Somebody else must do YOUR work for you. What if I don't feel like wiping my butt after I take a dump? Do I need someone to do it for me? If I don't do my planning well enough, I'm screwed. My fault. My parents started out their married life owing $150 (I'm told it was a big sum at the time) and they made themselves so that they would not have to depend on their children. My other set of friends that have adopted me? Ditto. They started out as a carpenter and a clerk.

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Giving money to a politician to manage is like giving the pharmacy keys to a drug addict to look after. Either way, the results aren't pretty.

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And this doesn't strike you as a Ponzi scheme because?

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Social Security worked beautifully when a relatively high number of working Americans were paid family-sustaining wages and had the good taste to drop dead at the age of 66. Now, in an era of McJobs and advancing medical technology...well, count on more bank robbery getaway cars being parked in the handicapped spot.

And when the politicians didn't need to tap into the funds to pay for projects or balance budgets, etc, etc. Now, it is their personal slush fund and it is part of what builds an entitlement society

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I do not see where anyone has addressed the Constitutional issue. Where is the federal governemt given the responsibility and/or the power to pay personal charity? Where is it authorised to redistribute wealth?
If its there, I haven't seen it, so please show me.
If the whole scheme is simply unconstitutional, does that bother anyone?
Are we a " Nation of Law" only when its convenient, or politcally popular?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Back in the 60s, the first "looting" of the SS System (SSS) occurred during a Democratic Congress during a Democratic Presidency...all approved (wink-wink-knudge-knudge) by those IN CHARGE...and nobody went screaming to the Supreme Court...therefore the precident was established...

More raiding of the SSS occurred during the following Democratic administrations...no *****in' - no foul...

IOUs for everyone...IOUs forever...the "budget" could be expanded on the backs of those IOUs and nobody would be the wiser...'cause nobody *****ed.

Now, because no one did anything to stop it...IT'S BUSH'S FAULT?

Who's smoking the aged ganja?

When the problem was first brought up by Republicans, the Democrats screamed that the Reps were being "Henny Pennys" and crying that the sky is falling...

Well, BS on everyone...I've said it before, I've typed it before and it's coming at you again...

GET OUT OF THE SYSTEM BEFORE THE SYSTEM COLLAPSES.

Here, once again, is the plan to shut the system down, properly and orderly.

#1.) Everyone who has contributed to the system for more than 10 years, can decide if they want to stay in the system, or opt out for a one-time, tax-free payment, to the recipient, no questions asked. If they want to head down to the local Indian-reservation and put it all on "Black" for a 2-to-1 payback, I don't give a flock. But, if you stay in the system, the rate of pay-in stays the same, doesn't go up and and rules stay as they currently are...without the increases in pay-ins...

#2.) Everyone who has been contributing less than 10 years, you get your money back...one-time, tax-free...there's no SSS for you when you get your check back...the SSS is officially dead...don't count on it...it's kaput!

#3.) Haven't started working yet? Ask your teachers (assuming they even have a clue as what they're teaching...) about 401(k) plans and Roth IRAs. Accept responsibility and get over the fact that BIG BROTHER is going to wipe your @55 when you can't reach it yourself.

How's the program going to survive? First off, put the IOUs to bed...pay back what was pilferred during the 60s-00s - Don't ***** about the costs now, those were "figured" during the writing of those IOUs...and the payback isn't by the folks that stayed in the program...it's paid back by the folks (yes, the ever lovin' bunch of us, the taxpayers) that benefitted from the "lower taxes" because of the SSS-money payouts to pay for what SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID FOR BY TAXES...

If a corporation benefitted from the SSS, then they need to contribute back, if a city benefitted from the SSS, they need to pay it back...

Be ready for a hefty dose of taxes...because we all benefitted from the SSS, one way or another, during those "borrowing days" of the 60s, 70s, 80s and beyond.

Or, hasn't your friendly, local politician bothered to "lick the 3rd-rail of political suicide" yet?

As for the political angle on this? The only pol that deserves credit for doing anything about the problem is any politician that's getting his @55 kicked, right now, for saying anything is wrong with it. And I can guarantee, at least 8 years ago, it was a hell of alot more Republicans, than Democrats.

The problem? Everyone QUIT SCREAMING.

If you or I don't scream about it...this whole program in heading down the 5hitter.

I've offered a solution...if there's a better one...let's hear it...

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M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
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.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
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.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

That I can agree with 100%

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I don't know much about Ponzi schemes, but don't they rely on an underlying fraud? As I understand it "investers" in Ponzi schemes are told a phony story about getting extraordinary returns on investment. How is that similar to SS?

The Supreme Court held that the Social Security Act was constitutional in 1937. Here's the story: http://www.ssa.gov/history/court.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi

A few weeks later Ponzi received a letter in the mail from a company in Spain asking about the catalog. Inside the envelope was an international postal reply coupon (IRC), something which he had never seen before. He asked about it and found a weakness in the system which would in principle allow him to make money.

The purpose of the postal reply coupon was to allow someone in one country to send it to a correspondent in another country, who could use it to pay the postage of a reply. For use within the same country, postage stamps would be sent; but stamps issued by one country cannot be used in another. IRCs were priced at the cost of postage in the country of purchase, but could be exchanged for stamps to cover the cost of postage in the country where redeemed; if these values were different, there was a potential profit. Inflation after the First World War had much decreased the cost of postage in Italy expressed in U.S. dollars, so that an IRC could be bought cheaply in Italy and exchanged for U.S. stamps to a higher value. The process was: send money abroad; have IRCs purchased by agents; send the IRCs to the U.S.A.; redeem the IRCs for stamps to a higher value; sell the stamps. Ponzi claimed that the net profit on these transactions, after expenses and exchange rates, was in excess of 400%. This was a form of arbitrage, or buying low and selling high, which is not illegal.

Ponzi canvassed friends and associates to back his scheme, offering a 50% return on investment in 45 days. The great returns available from postal reply coupons, he explained to them, made such incredible profits easy. He started his own company, the Securities Exchange Company, to promote the scheme.

Some people invested, and were paid off as promised. The word spread, and investment came in at an ever-increasing rate. Ponzi hired agents and paid them generous commissions for every dollar they brought in. By February 1920, Ponzi's total take was $5,000 USD, a large sum for the time.

By March he had made $30,000. A frenzy was building, and Ponzi began to hire agents to take in money from all over New England and New Jersey. At that time investors were being paid impressive rates, encouraging yet others to invest.

By May 1920 he had made $420,000. He began depositing the money in the Hanover Trust Bank, in hopes that once his account was large enough he could impose his will on the bank or even be made its president; he did, in fact, get a controlling interest in the bank.

By July 1920 he had made millions. People were mortgaging their homes and investing their life savings. Most did not take their profits, but reinvested.

Ponzi was bringing in cash at a fantastic rate, but the simplest financial analysis would have shown that the operation was running at a large loss. As long as money kept flowing in, existing investors could be paid with the new money, but colossal liabilities were accumulating.

Doesn't the last paragraph remind you of SS? Existing retirees paid with new money from workers? Ponzi's investors did know the truth of the operation. Only thing we don't have is the agents to sign up new "investors" but that is unnecessary since the money is forcefully taken from you.

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No.

What part of As long as money kept flowing in, existing investors could be paid with the new money, doesn't? How long would SS run if nobody contributed or "invested"? A couple of months? A couple of years? It is dependent on current payees.

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As it has been for more than 70 years, without missing a beat, and as it has been projected to continue doing for decades into the future, if adjustments are made.

So all those people that are predicting those are more credible than those saying it won't are because? Things have changed drastically. Conditions have changed and one more big influx is due when the baby boomers arrive. Are they more credible to you because you are afraid of people starving because of their own stupidity or is there something else that is real. I suppose my blown engine needs a little "adjustment" too right? I suppose that LA needs an adjustment and it will be functioning like pre-Katrina days too?

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11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow