Building on top of city sewer line - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #1 10-17-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I my 30+ years of Construction Inspection work, I only know of one instance where a building was erected over a utility, and that was a storm drain about 14 feet deep. I have never encountered any construction over a sanitary line. Your jurisdiction may be different.

It would not be allowed here.

kip Foss · #2 10-20-2008, 03:32 PM

Don't use the 'access to your property' as a reason that your neighbor should not build his garage. That becomes personal. Let the city tell him he can not build because of the interference with the sewer line. I believe that because the alley is designated a utility easement it does not give you right to public access. Technically the property owner owns to the center of the easement and you would have to get permission from each owner to transgress their property. If the alley is paved and/or designated a public right of way then you could have unobstructed access to your property.

kerry · #3 10-20-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kip Foss

Don't use the 'access to your property' as a reason that your neighbor should not build his garage. That becomes personal. Let the city tell him he can not build because of the interference with the sewer line. I believe that because the alley is designated a utility easement it does not give you right to public access. Technically the property owner owns to the center of the easement and you would have to get permission from each owner to transgress their property. If the alley is paved and/or designated a public right of way then you could have unobstructed access to your property.

I've already discussed the access issue with him. I've been accessing my backyard using that 'alley' for 18 years, as did the previous owners of my house for many (50+?) years. So, there's not much doubt that the owner of my house has a constructive easement over that land. It was actually fenced as an alley up until a couple of years ago when a previous owner of the house next door started demolishing the house. The lawyer I've talked to confirmed my opinion. The owner of the house on the other side of me had a similar issue with a person attempting to cut off access to her backyard from the other side. She won that battle a few months ago.
The access issue is important to me because even if he doesn't build a garage, he could build a fence, cutting off my access to my backyard.

All of this could have been avoided if the city had officially designated the space an alley 120 yrs ago. God knows why they didn't. Apart from the part I own, and my neighbor owns, it's technically considered 'surplus city property'.

Hatterasguy · #4 10-20-2008, 05:55 PM

Building over a sewer line would be dumb, because whatever you put on top of it will be coming down when it needs to be changed, and most likely you will pay to take it down. Besides that fact that the city won't let you of course.

chilcutt · #5 10-23-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Building over a sewer line would be dumb, because whatever you put on top of it will be coming down when it needs to be changed, and most likely you will pay to take it down. Besides that fact that the city won't let you of course.

That is why there are codes-to save carbon units from themselves.

kerry · #6 05-11-2010, 11:11 PM

Reviving this old thread. House in question next door, sold a few months ago. Neighbor down the street called me last night and told me the new owner told her he had a permit to build a garage. I say, no way, it's over the sewer. She say, 'You'd better check'. I call the city building department this morning. They confirm he has a permit. I ask for the precise location. She gives it. I ask, "How can he build over the sewer?" She replies 'Wastewater signed off on the permit." What the hell!
I call Wastewater. They say, yes we signed off on the permit, it's not over a city sewer line. I say, yes it is. He says no. I give the exact coordinates and tell him I have seen the sewer map. He reluctantly agrees to look at the permit and map again. Oooops, yes I am right. The garage is going over the main city sewer line. What now? "I'll have to talk to my boss and get the permit revoked."
So now the question is, does anyone know what happens when a city tries to revoke a permit it already gave to a homeowner? The guy at Wastewater said they'd tell the guy he'd have to move the garage south, off the sewer easement. If they do that, I'm pretty sure the remaining lot space is too small to accomodate a garage. **** could really hit the fan over this because I'm betting the seller of the property told the current owner he could build a garage back there.

PaulC · #7 10-20-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

All of this could have been avoided if the city had officially designated the space an alley 120 yrs ago. God knows why they didn't. Apart from the part I own, and my neighbor owns, it's technically considered 'surplus city property'.

Not if you buy it.

kerry · #8 10-20-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

Not if you buy it.

City won't sell. The person on the other side of my neighbor was trying to buy from the city to cut off access. City said no dice, neighbor has the right to access her backyard

PaulC · #9 10-20-2008, 05:58 PM

It would be particularly interesting if the sewer line cracked in an undetected manner and its use eroded the fill under the garage foundation. It's tricky to back the ol' Firebird out of the garage when you need a ladder just to get down to it.

bgkast · #10 10-20-2008, 07:31 PM

If it's a sewer easment it's as good as an alley because nobody will be able to build on it.

kip Foss · #11 10-22-2008, 10:14 PM

Kerry,

Your neighbor does NOT have a 'right' to access her backyard from the alley. The alley is designated as a utility easement. If it is gazetted as a public right of way (ROW) alley then she, and any other person, has a right to transit the alley. Access to ones backyard is why city zoning stipulates 'set back'. This is designed to allow access along side houses as well as preventing houses from being built too close to the street.

There are certain exceptions that allow for 'zero lot line' construction on the sides but they usually require a zoning variance which is reviewed by the planning and zoning committee and approved by the city council.

kerry · #12 10-22-2008, 10:36 PM

All the houses on the block were built in the 1890's so I doubt there were many zoning rules at the time. I think her 'right' is a 'constructive easement' according to the attorney I talked to. Once the owners of a home have been using a piece of land as access to that home for 100 years, they have a right to continue to use the land for that purpose. That was roughly the argument my neighbor's attorney was using when he was communicating with the city when it was considering selling its surplus property (the east end of the 'alley') to a homeowner at that end of the block who planned to fence it off. That potential buyer decided not to purchase once he realized that even if he owned it, he couldn't fence it off.

Hatterasguy · #13 10-22-2008, 10:49 PM

What else is under ground besides the sewer line? Around here water, gas, and storm drains are often not far away.

Gas is at 4ft, water has to be at least 4ft, sewer can be a lot deeper. I just did one today that was 8ft. We had 1ft of water in the hole, not fun.

kerry · #14 10-22-2008, 11:00 PM

Gas and water are in the main street. I think only the sewer is in the alley. However, it is about 20' deep and in sandy soil. The hole to access lines that deep in sandy soil is huge. Standard backhoes are incapable of the task so it gets quite expensive to do sewer work.

Hatterasguy · #15 10-22-2008, 11:49 PM

Yep, you need to bring in the big boys. We were using a little CAT 304C today. Which is like 10 times better than any backhoe for digging in tight spots. But for a 20ft sewer we'd probably use the larger 300PC, something with some balls and reach. The Volvo 160 might do the job if thats all that would fit, but when possible larger is usualy better. As you said costs go up fast with larger equipment, so does the PITA factor in tight spots, you probably can't really swing in the alley, not to mention it chews up the street and anything it rolls over. At least the 304 has rubber tracks!