Big 3 Bailouts... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jim B. · #16 12-08-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwrock

I really hope they dissolve the UAW.

X 1,000,000 (or however many members are in that Union.) It is totally out of control and killing the goose that laid the golden egg they are enjoying.

Of course the management is arrogant greedy and building pieces of garbage that nobody would want to buy, except maybe commercial truck and pickup truck buyers, who feel they have no good choices in the matter.

It is unbelievable in my lifetime to be saying this, as I remember so well when the choice for most Americans was whether to buy a Chevy Impala, Ford Galaxie, or a Plymouth Fury, and millions of them were sold every year. That was what people just did, it was normal.

How the mighty have fallen.

SwampYankee · #17 12-08-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

And Ohio, Indiana, MO, LA, TX and the other......44 Million people nationwide.

The supplier and subcontractor numbers are staggering.

iwrock · #18 12-08-2008, 04:30 PM

Getting close.... http://mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/FullArticle/CUSN/ndomesticNews_uUSTRE4B50CL20081208?p=2

450slcguy · #19 12-08-2008, 05:48 PM

How bout we start wiping out federal government pension/health retirement benefits?

Lets throw in the Cops, Teachers and Military people too. No more pensions/health benefits. No more 20 and out. Their all union workers, and all paid by Fed/State retirement funds, aren't they?

Let them all get 401k plans, like most of the American public nowadays.

Don't just pick on the UAW people. The Federal/State goverments are just as broke, if not more so.

Botnst · #20 12-08-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

How bout we start wiping out federal government pension/health retirement benefits?

Lets throw in the Cops, Teachers and Military people too. No more pensions/health benefits. No more 20 and out. Their all union workers, and all paid by Fed/State retirement funds, aren't they?

Let them all get 401k plans, like most of the American public nowadays.

Don't just pick on the UAW people. The Federal/State goverments are just as broke, if not more so.

To my knowledge, the only 20-and-out folks carry guns. You want a buncha gun-totin' ol' farts wheezing up and down streets looking for a place to pee? How about a couple of old guys taking down a cranked-up biker? 20 and out for L.E. & military is fine with me. It's a special duty with special responsibility.

The federal retirement system changed from civil service (CSRS) to FERS about 20 years ago. The current system is a 3-legged system of SSI, 401K and annuity. Failure to pay into 401K essentially reduces federal retirement by at least 1/3 o(for low-pay) and more for GS-9 and above. Meanwhile, gov pay for the same job has lagged the private sector for about Clinton + Bush = 16 yrs and the gap (until uh ... this year) has been growing.

It ain't your grandpa's generous system.

Hatterasguy · #21 12-08-2008, 08:13 PM

I beleive GM's cash burn is 2.5B a month. At the end of January they are going to be real close to their "minimum" cash operating level of about $16B. If this $15B is divided up to all three thats only $5b for GM, or two months worth of burn. So come march they should come back asking for more.

Unless they fix this 2.5B a month cash burn through some serious lay off's, I don't see how their situation will improve. Investors view them as high risk and as a result won't lend money to GM, unless its at a rate that would make the mafia proud.

IMHO I don't understand why they are resisting chapter 11 so much, seems like the best way to quickly restructure.

tankdriver · #22 12-09-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

No. The Wall Street bail-out was worse, IMO. The gov should be in charge of regulating, not running businesses. It cannot fairly both run and regulate.

B

Too bad we had a failure to regulate.
The big mistake IMO is that if government is going to get into business, it should own what it buys. That way it can be temporary, and regulations can be put in so that government won't have to come back and get into business again.

SwampYankee · #23 12-09-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

How bout we start wiping out federal government pension/health retirement benefits?

Lets throw in the Cops, Teachers and Military people too. No more pensions/health benefits. No more 20 and out. Their all union workers, and all paid by Fed/State retirement funds, aren't they?

Let them all get 401k plans, like most of the American public nowadays.

Don't just pick on the UAW people. The Federal/State goverments are just as broke, if not more so.

Like most states, CT is in a budget crisis. The Gov.(R) wants cuts and the State House (veto-proof D) and Senate (veto-proof D) just can't find anything to cut. One State Rep. (R) interviewed on TV said that state employees have a $3 co-pay on their prescriptions (for generic, $6 for brand) and that might need to be addressed. Of course that will go over like a fart in church since the state employee unions heavily back the (D) elected officials.

$3 freakin' dollars??!!?!? We're at $20 generic/$30 brand and I think that's a reasonable expectation. Same with their health insurance, $10-15 in network copay compared to our $20-30. With 45,000 current employees, who knows how many retired, it doesn't take long for those numbers to add up to significant amounts for reasonable coverage.

Botnst · #24 12-09-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

Too bad we had a failure to regulate.
The big mistake IMO is that if government is going to get into business, it should own what it buys. That way it can be temporary, and regulations can be put in so that government won't have to come back and get into business again.

The government has a clear history demonstrating it's consistent, predictable expertise in budgeting and productivity. I am virtually certain they will be a good fit with GM and investment bankers.

B

Medmech · #25 12-09-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Like most states, CT is in a budget crisis. The Gov.(R) wants cuts and the State House (veto-proof D) and Senate (veto-proof D) just can't find anything to cut. One State Rep. (R) interviewed on TV said that state employees have a $3 co-pay on their prescriptions (for generic, $6 for brand) and that might need to be addressed. Of course that will go over like a fart in church since the state employee unions heavily back the (D) elected officials.

$3 freakin' dollars??!!?!? We're at $20 generic/$30 brand and I think that's a reasonable expectation. Same with their health insurance, $10-15 in network copay compared to our $20-30. With 45,000 current employees, who knows how many retired, it doesn't take long for those numbers to add up to significant amounts for reasonable coverage.

We have the same thing going on in Michigan, I have a friend that is in the big insurance business and he says that if office and drug co-pays for state workers rates for the rest of the state will increase at least 10% next year. The biggest problem is office visit co-pays, with cheap co-pays people go to the doctor for a little sniffle while $20 will cut down the office visit rate substantially.

Mistress · #26 12-09-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by botnst

bail-out with my money rewards the incompetent, greedy, short-sighted management and rewards the greedy, short-sighted, incompetent unions.

Fock them all.

x2.

SwampYankee · #27 12-09-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

We have the same thing going on in Michigan, I have a friend that is in the big insurance business and he says that if office and drug co-pays for state workers rates for the rest of the state will increase at least 10% next year. The biggest problem is office visit co-pays, with cheap co-pays people go to the doctor for a little sniffle while $20 will cut down the office visit rate substantially.

Absolutely! And it also keeps them out of the emergency room for the little things.

Our company policy is increasing by $144,000 for 26 employees. That's a big pill for us to swallow. Historically we've paid 80% to the employees 20% but we just shifted it to 75/25, much to the howls and chagrin of most of our employees (some do actually realize they are pretty lucky). I don't think it's unreasonable to expect state and federal employees to make similar contributions.

Carleton Hughes · #28 12-09-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

The government has a clear history demonstrating it's consistent, predictable expertise in budgeting and productivity. I am virtually certain they will be a good fit with GM and investment bankers.

B

We still have RICO statutes on the books,might be a time to use'em.

AustinsCE · #29 12-09-2008, 01:33 PM

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/081209-Auto-Bailout-Big-Three-Ask-Other-Countries-for-Billions-Too-/

Quote:

America's three largest automakers may fallen short of the $34 billion they requested from the U.S. Congress in bailout talks this month, but that doesn't mean they've stopped trying. A bill making its way through Congress today would provide around $15 billion in federal loans to automakers. Now, the companies are asking the Canadian government to kick in almost $7 billion. Sweden is reportedly mulling a contribution as well...

SwampYankee · #30 12-09-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

The government has a clear history demonstrating it's consistent, predictable expertise in budgeting and productivity. I am virtually certain they will be a good fit with GM and investment bankers.

B

C'mon Bot, the Car Czar will save us.