*** Bend Over - Here Comes Some More Taxes! *** - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mgburg · #1 01-03-2009, 10:46 AM

Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline

PORTLAND, Ore. – Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely with gasoline taxes.

"I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver who participated in a recent pilot program.

The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial incentive for buying efficient vehicles.

But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.

Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.

The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways, bridges and transit programs in good shape.

But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.

As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.

The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with manufacturers."

Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.

Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.

In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.

"There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he said.

Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of raising gasoline taxes.

The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the American Road & Transportation Builders Association.

In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.

Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland area, proved the idea could work.

Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.

The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline taxes.

The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small — "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.

But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.

For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.

Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said he and his task force have assured people that the program does not track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.

"I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that many cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred customers.

Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.

"It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a hybrid would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the gas tax needs to be updated."

Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea but said it was worth consideration.

"We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just isn't working."

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Guess what Lynda? This is a can of worms you REALLY don't want to open...

I've got a few problems with this already...

Where do you mount all that hardware on a motorcycle, moped, bicycle or any other vehicle that USES THE ROADWAY?

How are the Amish going to attach that crap to their horses or buggies?

You have to RECIND the current taxes before instituting a replacement tax...and when has a group of polititians EVER got that right...the first time?

What happens to the hairball polititians that take the money, collected for roads and highway infrastructures, and moves it into a different account not related to transportation? Are you able to LEGALLY kick his @55 out of office? And then, TRY TO GET THE MONEY TRANSFERRED BACK?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Kuan · #2 01-03-2009, 10:49 AM

Huh. Just register the mileage at the DMV everytime you renew your tabs.

TheDon · #3 01-03-2009, 10:57 AM

so, you would have to pay a road tax as well as a tax on the fuel... effing gay

mgburg · #4 01-03-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan

Huh. Just register the mileage at the DMV everytime you renew your tabs.

That would be OK IF you only drove in your state and never took the vehicle over the border.

The question comes up...what about out-of-state drivers on your state's roads?

Do you nail them at the border?
When they come in or when they leave?
Do you have a "tax booth" at EVERY state line crossing?

And here's another concern...

What about all those Benzs with non-operating odometers? You'd have to institute an inspection program (some states don't even do that anymore, or do it in a very limited number of counties...mainly for EPA requirements...) or you're driving free...

Nope, this type of program would need a tremendous amount of infrastructure established before it would come to fruition...but some idiot is going to ride this donkey to the nearest windmill and take it on...

You only hope and pray one of the blades takes his/her head off...

Kuan · #5 01-03-2009, 12:08 PM

Yep. Lame idea.

Larry Delor · #6 01-03-2009, 12:18 PM

Next thing they will install a methane meter on your anus, so that they can measure green house gas emissions, and tax you accordingly.
Maybe then, people will decide that the government is too far up our arses.

Botnst · #7 01-03-2009, 12:26 PM

Ring around Uranus.

Larry Delor · #8 01-03-2009, 12:32 PM

Beware of Kling-ons!

123c · #9 01-03-2009, 12:53 PM

I live in Washington, I pay the highest amount of gas taxes anywhere

LUVMBDiesels · #10 01-03-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan

Huh. Just register the mileage at the DMV everytime you renew your tabs.

In that case I would disconnect the Speedo for 11 months a year!

LUVMBDiesels · #11 01-03-2009, 03:19 PM

Here is another concern. Will the GPS system also monitor speed? Will they be able to download a log of where you were and how fast you were going? I can see the cops sending you 50 tickets after downloading the GPS log!
You would also have no defense as the system logged the evidence.

732002 · #12 01-03-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

Here is another concern. Will the GPS system also monitor speed? Will they be able to download a log of where you were and how fast you were going? I can see the cops sending you 50 tickets after downloading the GPS log!
You would also have no defense as the system logged the evidence.

Rental cars already do much of that, they track you and charge for going
out of state.

New cars have a black box that tells what the speed, braking etc
was several seconds before a crash.

In theory higher gas taxes is a good way to encourage less dependence
on foreign oil and we would export less dollars.
The politics of higher taxes vs lower taxes will never let this
happen.

Botnst · #13 01-03-2009, 04:48 PM

Foil Hats will be available for cars soon.

Chris Bell · #14 01-03-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Delor

Next thing they will install a methane meter on your anus, so that they can measure green house gas emissions, and tax you accordingly.
Maybe then, people will decide that the government is too far up our arses.

Don't give them any ideas

Medmech · #15 01-03-2009, 06:13 PM

I was watching a show on the History Channel last night about the great depression and they said there were a few triggers that caused it, the first being the Fed raised interest rates and followed with raising taxes which was the knock out blow to the economy. The individual states are not helping with the situation.