Godlessness is good. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #1 01-29-2009, 11:49 AM

CONSIDER THIS
The Virtues of Godlessness

The least religious nations are also the most healthy and successful
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By PHIL ZUCKERMAN

The world seems more religious than ever these days.

Across the Middle East, fervent forms of Islam are growing more popular and more politically active. Muslim nations that were somewhat secularized 40 years ago — like Lebanon and Iran — are now teeming with fundamentalism. In Turkey and Egypt, increasing numbers of women are turning to the veil as an overt manifestation of reinvigorated religious commitment. But it isn't just in the Muslim world that religion is thriving. From Brazil to El Salvador, Protestant evangelicalism is spreading with great success, instilling a spirited, holy zeal throughout Latin America. Pentecostalism is proliferating, too — vigorously — and not only throughout Latin America, but in Africa and even, to a lesser extent, China. And many nations of the former Soviet Union, which had atheism imposed upon them for decades, have emerged from the communist era with their faith not only intact, but strong and vibrant. Here in the United States, religion is definitely alive and well. In terms of church attendance and belief in God, Jesus, and the Bible, religion in the United States is stronger and more robust than in most other developed democracies.

In sum, from Nebraska to Nepal, from Georgia to . . .

http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?id=gqchf08syrq7qfcxqfzjh9d949ndm2k2

DieselAddict · #2 01-29-2009, 03:02 PM

The author doesn't say that godlessness necessarily leads to prosperity and happiness but he does make the case against the likes of Pat Robertson who claim that without strong faith in God society is doomed. Scandinavia is indeed a good counter-example of that. Personally I think it may be the other way, that most people there are sufficiently happy that they don't need religion. It's usually the poor, uneducated and oppressed who are the most religious.

Fitz · #3 01-29-2009, 03:42 PM

Denmark and Sweden are also among the least racially "diverse" of the Western countries, so for the time being, they've escaped that religion too.

DieselAddict · #4 01-29-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz

Denmark and Sweden are also among the least racially "diverse" of the Western countries, so for the time being, they've escaped that religion too.

Not really. A lot of muslims are settling in those countries as they are in the rest of Europe.

pj67coll · #5 01-29-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Not really. A lot of muslims are settling in those countries as they are in the rest of Europe.

They are certainly less racially diverse than, oh hell, just about anywhere else on earth except for Japan. The muslim immigration is still not large enough percentage wise to significantly alter the stats the article was mentioning.

Being an atheist I completely agree with the premise though. In general the less religion the better off the society.

- Peter.

Botnst · #6 01-29-2009, 04:09 PM

Godlessness worked wonders for Russia, China, and Cambodia.

DieselAddict · #7 01-29-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

They are certainly less racially diverse than, oh hell, just about anywhere else on earth except for Japan. The muslim immigration is still not large enough percentage wise to significantly alter the stats the article was mentioning.

Being an atheist I completely agree with the premise though. In general the less religion the better off the society.

- Peter.

Well, France is already 5 or 10% muslim. Holland is probably not far behind. I don't know specifically about Denmark and Sweden, but I know a lot of Iraqi refugees have resettled in Sweden and Denmark has had its own share of problems with conservative muslim values of immigrants colliding with traditional Danish secularity.

jplinville · #8 01-30-2009, 05:25 AM

I can sum up both side's arguments with this phrase I coined and live be..."That which cannot be explained by science is faith, that which has been proven is fact"

Science will always beg to ask the question of why? Why do things work a certain way...Why were we designed the way we were?

Until these questions, and many others like them are answered, there will always be faith in a more powerful being than man.

Science and Faith can work hand in hand...once the answers are found.

DieselAddict · #9 01-30-2009, 08:04 PM

Those stats are worse than what I've seen. If these are true, that's pretty sad.

kerry · #10 01-30-2009, 08:33 PM

I have my doubts about those statistics.

The Clk Man · #11 01-30-2009, 08:53 PM

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

MTUpower · #12 01-31-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Does the lord serve beer in your house?

The Clk Man · #13 01-31-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Does the lord serve beer in your house?

I deserved that.

Botnst · #14 01-31-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

I have my doubts about those statistics.

It's all in how you ask questions, same for any poll.

There are lots of studies over many years and they indicate that the USA is still a strong majority Christian nation.

It gets tricky when they start asking about beliefs. How do we know how strongly beliefs are held? How many answer out of rote?

DieselAddict · #15 01-31-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

There are lots of studies over many years and they indicate that the USA is still a strong majority Christian nation.

No doubt. But Time magazine did a religious survey in the last few years and I remember reading that 20-25% of those Christians don't believe God interacts with daily life on Earth. Basically he has better things to do. As far as belief in evolution goes, from what I saw in another survey it's about 2/3 and about half of those also believe in God. Still somewhat worrisome, but not nearly as bad as the stats in your article.