Sad Day:49 KILLED AS PLANE CRASHES INTO HOME IN CLARENCE CENTER - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

WVOtoGO · #16 02-13-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress

I wonder if there is anyway they can design a wing that can carry de-icing liquid in a reservoir similar to winshield wiper fluid?

I would imagine they could. But that’s a heck of a lot of fluid !!

And as we all know – Liquids are far heavier than electrons and hot air.

diametricalbenz · #17 02-13-2009, 10:32 AM

I never quite understood the ice effect on wings. I comprehend the principles of an airfoil and how lift is generated with high and low pressure areas but never knew where ice formed on the wing itself. Does it jam control surfaces or actually accumulate enough to change the lift characterististics of the wing....and if so could it cause loss of control by forming that quickly?

Matt SD300 · #18 02-13-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

I never quite understood the ice effect on wings. I comprehend the principles of an airfoil and how lift is generated with high and low pressure areas but never knew where ice formed on the wing itself. Does it jam control surfaces or actually accumulate enough to change the lift characterististics of the wing....and if so could it cause loss of control by forming that quickly?

X2?......

Mistress · #19 02-13-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

I would imagine they could. But that’s a heck of a lot of fluid !!

And as we all know – Liquids are far heavier than electrons and hot air.

What if you decreased fuel capacity to make up for that? Or if the wings could be covered in a material that would hinder icing.....

Mistress · #20 02-13-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

I never quite understood the ice effect on wings. I comprehend the principles of an airfoil and how lift is generated with high and low pressure areas but never knew where ice formed on the wing itself. Does it jam control surfaces or actually accumulate enough to change the lift characterististics of the wing....and if so could it cause loss of control by forming that quickly?

this might help

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-132131.html

http://www.fluent.com/about/news/newsletters/01v10i2/a15.htm

WVOtoGO · #21 02-13-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

Does it jam control surfaces or actually accumulate enough to change the lift characterististics of the wing....and if so could it cause loss of control by forming that quickly?

It can jam things up, but that's pretty rare. Especially on larger aircraft.
I think the ATR is an aircraft that's been known to have control surface jamming issues. American has a fleet of them.

Yes - It changes the lift characteristics of the wing as well as the tail surfaces. On some smaller aircraft there's even the issue of weight and drag.

Yes - Some icing cases have been know to happen quite quickly.

WVOtoGO · #22 02-13-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress

What if you decreased fuel capacity to make up for that? Or if the wings could be covered in a material that would hinder icing.....

No too practical.

We do the surface material thing all the time. It’s called wax.

On taxi out we can get sprayed with alcohol/glycol as well.
That helps prevent accumulations of things like snow more than ice though.

Mistress · #23 02-13-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

No too practical.

We do the surface material thing all the time. It’s called wax.

On taxi out we can get sprayed with alcohol/glycol as well.
That helps prevent accumulations of things like snow more than ice though.

I remember Shelby's post from last summer, wax one, wax off....

R Leo · #24 02-13-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

It can jam things up, but that's pretty rare. Especially on larger aircraft.
I think the ATR is an aircraft that's been known to have control surface jamming issues. American has a fleet of them.

One of the reports said it was a Bombardier Dash 8.

WVOtoGO · #25 02-13-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

One of the reports said it was a Bombardier Dash 8.

Yep - I think so.
Awesome aircraft.

But then – Most anything built be de Havilland is. (Comet excluded.)

WVOtoGO · #26 02-13-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress

I remember Shelby's post from last summer, wax one, wax off....

Yep - She's good at it.

I guess at this stage, you haven’t had the opportunity to actually see ice formations on your aircraft. It’s really quite interesting. Cessna wing struts are a great way to see/learn about it. (Making sure you are able to climb above it or land of course, before….well…you know.)

We have boots on the wings and electric props on the PA31. Sometimes in rapidly forming conditions we have the cycle timer set too slow. Ice will build pretty quick on the prop blades (4 each side) and when the heat goes on it sounds like we’re taking 50 caliber hits (just a guess) when the ice hits the side of the fuselage. Been known to scare the ---- out of some PAX !!

Edit: Yes - I usually just sit there and giggle.

diametricalbenz · #27 02-13-2009, 12:02 PM

Interesting, I like the idea of having the porous skin that secretes de-icing liquid.

I presume the bleed air is pulled from the post combustion stage and routed in reverse through the engine pylon?

WVOtoGO · #28 02-13-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

Interesting, I like the idea of having the porous skin that secretes de-icing liquid.

I presume the bleed air is pulled from the post combustion stage and routed in reverse through the engine pylon?

Porous isn't a good thing.
Keep in mind how much time the (any) aircraft spends in potential icing conditions vs time that it's not.

PRE-combustion actually. Compressed, and quite toasty.

R Leo · #29 02-13-2009, 12:16 PM

Did I miss something? Was icing a mentioned as a possibility in the Continental Express crash?

TX76513 · #30 02-13-2009, 12:24 PM

Yikes - sad day at IAH, you can read this event on all the COA employees faces