GM done for - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

123c · #31 02-21-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan

I wouldn't mind if the guy who designed the Pinto lost his pension.

Weren't those a joint venture with Mazda?

MS Fowler · #32 02-22-2009, 02:14 PM

I think the Pinto gets an undeserved bad rap. For their time, they were actually pretty decent small cars, if a little over-weight. Ford erred big time when they elected not to put the plastic pad to protect the gas tank, but the overall design was not too bad.

bgkast · #33 02-22-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Many have pointed out that if they go into Bankruptcy they might as well liquidate and close up.....as people won't buy a car from a company in that position when they can go buy a nice Hyundai or Toyota and not worry about re-sale value and support down the road.

Am I the only one that thinks this is funny?

TheDon · #34 02-22-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

Am I the only one that thinks this is funny?

I think it is.

If I had the kind of income that allowed me to buy a new car I was playing with the thought of a G8 or w/e it is or a saturn Sky since its a pretty slick looking car.

But I still have a taste for european cars, which the sky and G8 seem to come from..-cough-holden.vauxhall- cough-

It still amazes me the wide selection of cars the europeans get from our own country's auto maker. The ford KA is pretty cool and I'd consider one over a Fortwo anyday or anything opel or holden.

I laughed when the GTO came "back". Sorry, that wasn't a real GTO. John Z Delorean would have had a fit.. or probably did before he passed.

So, whats going to be in transformers two or three? Honda's?

Botnst · #35 02-22-2009, 02:56 PM

I almost bought a Sky, too. I test drove a turbo version and really liked it a lot. But then this E300D surfaced and I bought it and saved a pile of money on sticker, upkeep, insurance, etc.

mwood · #36 02-22-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I almost bought a Sky, too. I test drove a turbo version and really liked it a lot. But then this E300D surfaced and I bought it and saved a pile of money on sticker, upkeep, insurance, etc.

You made the right decision. The Sky is one of the most uncomfortable cars I've ever driven. Ergonomics sucked, to reach the window switches I had to pull my arm back so far my elbow was jammed between the door and seat back. The cup holder in the center console was the same way, I had to almost turn in my seat to use it. I'm not that big, just under 6', and I had to have the seat all the way back and it still wasn't far enough. I was very dissapointed.

Jim B. · #37 02-22-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I think the Pinto gets an undeserved bad rap. For their time, they were actually pretty decent small cars, if a little over-weight. Ford erred big time when they elected not to put the plastic pad to protect the gas tank, but the overall design was not too bad.

The Pinto station wagons *DID* have the $3 waffle pad between the differential and the gas tank. The hatchbacks and other Pinto's didn't.

People used to joke about putting Firestone 500's on them and then just wait at the toll plaza until one of those Audi 5000's with the stuck accellerators would plow into the rear end of them!!!

Emmerich · #38 02-24-2009, 12:14 AM

Too much discussion about a single event (or vehicle) that doomed GM. It is much simpler. Any company that is basically a welfare state for its FORMER employees and has a huge entitlement program (right up there with Uncle Sam and that is always in the red) is doomed to failure. It is like a squirrel on a wheel, the wheel keeps spinning faster and you can't just maintain, you have to speed up.

Some people disagree, by IMO the unions killed the US auto industry. There was a need for them when they were created, but they became entities whose only goal was to protect their own existence at the expense of its members. How many non-auto companies do you know that can exist with the level of animosity that exists in the auto industry between management and workers?

Larry Delor · #39 02-24-2009, 12:25 AM

I'm not anti union - but how can you justify an avg. salary of 144k? Thats around 100k less than the avg. american.

86560SEL · #40 02-24-2009, 12:37 AM

Its sad.... since the 1950s through the 1990s, GM was the largest auto manufacturer in the world, outselling all other makes by a land slide.... especially in the 1950s-1970s.... that was when they made REAL cars!

such as these.... a walk down memory lane....
1967 Buick Skylark wagon...

1971 Buick Electra...

1958 Buick Limited...

1946 Buick Estate Wagon...

1960 Cadillac Fleetwood...

1971 Cadillac Sedan deVille...

there were nearly 100,000 of these models alone sold in 1971

1948 Cadillac Fleetwood...

1955 Chevrolet Bel-Air...

1965 Chevrolet Caprice...

1971 Chevrolet Caprice... (there were like a total of 900,000 full-size Chevrolets sold this year)

1976 Chevrolet Caprice Estate 9-passenger wagon...

1969 Chevrolet Chevelle Malibus... (a very high selling car in 1969)

1959 Chevrolet Impala...

Corvette...

Oldsmobiles were very popular cars in the 50s-70s.... now they are gone.
1960 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight...

1946 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight...

1969 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight...

1969 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Holiday...

1969 Oldsmobile 442...

1969 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser...

1972 Oldsmobiles...

Ninety Eight...

1972 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser...

1971 Oldsmobile Toronado...

86560SEL · #41 02-24-2009, 01:47 AM

a few more.....

Now Pontiac may be going....
1946 Pontiac Streamliner wagon...

1959 Pontiac Bonneville...

1957 Pontiac Bonneville...

1958 Pontiac Bonneville...

1969 Pontiac GTO...

1969 Pontiac Firebird...

1972 Pontiac Grand Ville...

1964 Pontiac GTO...

1974 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon...

and a couple of more early 70s Cadillacs....
1972 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham...

1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible...

MS Fowler · #42 02-24-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

Too much discussion about a single event (or vehicle) that doomed GM. It is much simpler. Any company that is basically a welfare state for its FORMER employees and has a huge entitlement program (right up there with Uncle Sam and that is always in the red) is doomed to failure. It is like a squirrel on a wheel, the wheel keeps spinning faster and you can't just maintain, you have to speed up.

Some people disagree, by IMO the unions killed the US auto industry. There was a need for them when they were created, but they became entities whose only goal was to protect their own existence at the expense of its members. How many non-auto companies do you know that can exist with the level of animosity that exists in the auto industry between management and workers?

Much truth here.
IMO, the most insidious aspect of the Union Shop is the "Us vs Them" mentality. Either the company makes money, turns a profit, and continues to exist, and provide jobs, or it fails, and no one has a job.
One of these situations is to be preferred.

75Sv1 · #43 02-24-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

Too much discussion about a single event (or vehicle) that doomed GM. It is much simpler. Any company that is basically a welfare state for its FORMER employees and has a huge entitlement program (right up there with Uncle Sam and that is always in the red) is doomed to failure. It is like a squirrel on a wheel, the wheel keeps spinning faster and you can't just maintain, you have to speed up.

Some people disagree, by IMO the unions killed the US auto industry. There was a need for them when they were created, but they became entities whose only goal was to protect their own existence at the expense of its members. How many non-auto companies do you know that can exist with the level of animosity that exists in the auto industry between management and workers?

Who started the animosity? Also, other companies offshored production. I will agree that the UAW has some culpability on this mess. Still, US CEOs and other board members are paid way to much money. Most have a very short term view of profit. Also, I am not sure how the UAW messed up this Banking crissis we are in.

'I'm not anti union - but how can you justify an avg. salary of 144k? Thats around 100k less than the avg. american. '

A lot of these guys are/were working 12 hour shifts, seven days a week. Their Overtime pay kicks in sooner than Federal guidelines. There are some companies that are not required to pay overtime. It sucks working straight time and more than 40 hours per week.
Tom

tankdriver · #44 02-24-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Delor

I'm not anti union - but how can you justify an avg. salary of 144k? Thats around 100k less than the avg. american.

I'm not pro-union, but I can't understand why some people want to give management a free pass for crapping all over the place. The union did it's share of crapping, but so did management.

75Sv1 · #45 02-24-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Much truth here.
IMO, the most insidious aspect of the Union Shop is the "Us vs Them" mentality. Either the company makes money, turns a profit, and continues to exist, and provide jobs, or it fails, and no one has a job.
One of these situations is to be preferred.

I've also heard of the reverse happening. Someone doing a job and making the buisness money. Not willing to pay said worker or employee what they think they are worth or a bit more than they are now. Employee goes elsewhere. Company doesn't do so well.

I'm not anti union - but how can you justify an avg. salary of 144k? Thats around 100k less than the avg. american.
Also, I make more per hour that a friend of mine. We work at the same plant, same company, different work area and division and different Union. He take more, a lot more, home every year. Of course he's working, till recently, almost 7 days a week and sometime 12 hour days.
There was a Dilbert comic, where a maintnence guy is roaming the halls. One of the managment or secertaries says to him, 'I thought your work hours were over, by now.' He replies, 'I'm working Overtime'. She says, "what's that.' He pulls out some charts and pointing to the charts, says something like,'When I work over my regular work hours, may pay rate is exponentially increased over the aloted time" or something like that. There are wisps of steam comeing out her ears. The last frame of the comic, is the maintenance guy leaning back in a chair, saying, 'I love office trolling.'

Tom