I wonder if the distribution of intelligence is really is normal -- gaussian. In many cases people assume a normal distribution because the mathematics are well understood for that distribution -- not because data (or their measurement errors) are normally distributed.

Let's see...

"Whites are better than (insert race of deferential treatment here), because blah, blah, blah..."

The Nazis pulled this crap during WWII. and some guy that won a Nobel prize for the development of the transistor (named Shockley IIRC...) had his moment in the sun proposing that there was a genetic link to superiority and a higher IQ..

You are what you are based on what YOU DID and will do, not based on who dogged your mom on a hot summer's eve or did "the nasty" with your grandmother during a trade for a can of soup and a gallon of gas during the war.

You have the intelligence that God gave you to explore what ever you want, to go where you want and to read, study and consume what you want.

It's too many Playboys, HO-HOs, hookers, video games, crack, drink, drugs and hedonistic pleasures that keep us from achieving higher IQs.

And btw, if you're inclined, hanging with people of the same likes don't make you any more intelligent, just more popular...and having money is really what the whole game is about, isn't it?

Paris Hilton, anyone?

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M. G. Burg
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“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

i prefer the ritz carlton in new york

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

In response to The Bell Curve, Stephen Jay Gould published this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Mismeasure-Man-Stephen-Jay-Gould/dp/0393314251/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235280676&sr=8-2

Botnst, you mentioned in post #13 of this thread that you attended one of Gould's lectures. Do you own this book?

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'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

Not the book, but the lecture I attended was due to the book's popularity or in anticipation of the books release or as a promo of the book. The timing is kind of hazy. Gould titled the lecture in the form of a debate topic, which are contrived such that they can be negated. Something like, "Resolved that intelligence and race are correlated."

The lecture was at the University of Southern Mississippi, which probably seemed ironic to him as 60 years previously the entire university would have pilloried the uppity fat Jew for promoting racial equality.

What I found ironic was that a fair number of students present, black and white, after sitting through the whole lecture, never got past the title. They thought Gould really was promoting racial differences. It was stunning that they sat there for 45 minutes of carefully documented history of (mis)measurements and generally bad science culminating in several modern studies that failed to find a significant difference among races, and STILL wanted to argue about his title. I felt embarrassed for the ignorant, closed-minded kids. They are just as resistant to ideas as their parents and grand-parents.

I'll just give one example of how silly they were. Gould showed a slide of a 18th or 19th century drawing of a "Hottenton" woman that caricatured the racial differences between whites and blacks. Apparently this drawing was used as scientific evidence in some study demonstrating the close similarity between apes and negroes. Well, THAT is what people got incensed about, as though Gould had argued in favor of that study.

I own one of Gould's books, an early compilation of his contributions to "Natural History" magazine. I liked Gould's natural history work but found his social stuff tedious in a way consistent among paternalistc northeastern ivy-league socialist intellectuals.

Hah! You are too nice... or more likely holding back under threat of infractionation.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

North and South Welsh are not two different races. Geography is separate from race.

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1984 300TD

Here's an IQ test that I'd like to suggest....

If three or four years ago, you answered a solicitation in the mail that offered the opportunity to refinance your home or borrow money to buy a home with little or nothing down and an Adjustable Rate Mortgage...and you didn't understand at the time you signed the papers that your monthly payments would almost certainly increase in a short period of time...you probably have a low IQ.

I understand that there are 100's of thousands of such people claiming to be victims of their own stupidity, though for the sake of this thread, I'm not sure how they would would break down into racial categories. Neither do I see how it is possible to seek the protection afforded to idiots without also assuming the social stigma of being an idiot.

Botnst, I take it you don't identify much with the people who inhabit that region of the country. Why do you live there?

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1983 300D

So Darwins theory is wrong?

To answer Bot's original question, Yes, I think that anything can, and should be studied, and discussed, debated and peer-reviewed.
To shut down such discussion leads to the belief that "truth" is being supressed--especially if the reason is "PC".
Let the full light shine on this topic and see if there is any truth there.
My guess is that an objective debate would show wider divergence in any given group, that between groups.
Why should any topic be off limits, except if there is fear that the truth might be distasteful? Again do you want your surgeon to have been a product of some PC set-aside, or a truly competent, educated doctor?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Having a high IQ doesn't exclude you from boneheaded moves, and especially not from being an a-hole.

Having science come up with a conclusion will only serve to let a few people be able to say: "See!? I told you so!"
Other than that, I can't see this sort of information (if any should prove to be definitive) being used for the improvement of mankind.

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

Some things shouldn't be studied because they can't be studied. For instance a study of the dietary habits of leprechauns shouldn't be carried out because there aren't leprechauns. From what I have read, 'race' is like 'leprechauns'.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
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1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Why? What would we do with the information? Just the process of trying to study the issue in any scientific manner would be divisive. And what are the odds of coming up with conclusions that people will accept as true? It is a pointless exercise and I would question the judgment and motivation of any scientist who devote his or her career to this subject.

You can go ahead and debate if you like. Looks like a waste of time to me.

I do agree with your suggestion for peer review. Charles Murray might have saved himself some public embarrassment if he and his co-author had submitted The Bell Curve to peer review. Of course, if they had done that, the book probably never would have been published.

Just as race knows not geography, neither does stupid.

Here is an interesting read about the Bell Curve, it's a part of a longer article about think tanks and how they make books like this a success.

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1979 Black on Black, 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE (vanished by the hands of a girlfriend), 1992 300CE (Rescue).