I never said it was a grand enterprise, you did. I'm also not talking about the desire, just ability, two vastly different things.

I was talking along tactical and strategic military lines, if you care to dispute me please do.

For example could they field a modern Afrika Korps to fight a war like Iraq? I have no doubt that they could field properly equiped quality formations, probably much better than the original in that regard. But the staff officers and commanders are no longer present, to menuver it with the esprit de corps of the old units. This is what enabled the vastly inferior German formations to succed.

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It's your manner of speech that indicates your fondness for and appreciation of the ways of war. What would be the point of having the ability to wage a major land battle if you did not have the desire? Would not the desire be the force behind the creation? What price to create such ability? If you were a German, having the history they do, would you really want to return to the ideology that created these great military men? Personally, I have never met any German staff officers or commanders, past or present, have you?

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It's a false premise to suggest that the only way for Germany to reassume past military prowess is a return to Nazism.

One facet of the German military of the past that encouraged fighting was the rate at which summary execution was enforced. Literally thousands of soldiers were killed by their on officers and noncoms for failing to follow orders and cowardice. It encouraged blind, instant obedience.

Which ideology? The old Prussian military schools or nazism?

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Never said it was the ONLY way, but could it not be A way?

Case in point. Is that the kind of methodology that a modern society should be embracing?

Hatt, you mentioned the Afrika corps. Who created them?

I am not disparaging the pure military achievements of the Third Reich. Truly they had great leaders and achieved things that conventional thinking put out of their reach. I can understand glorifying the tactics and esprit de corps from a military history viewpoint. My reason for jumping into this thread was the opinions being stated that Germany was somehow a lesser country, even to be viewed with disdain, because they do not possess, or seek to possess a military like the one they wielded under Hitler. The expression I believe was "sad" I do not find it sad.

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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

They kind of lead to the same thing...

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In hindsight, clearly.

Since we are so far OT that this has turned into a discussion of Germanic warriors. I have to beg to differ. There was a huge difference between the Prussian school and the Nazi's. The Prussians believed in their personal honor and in that of their class. They would be very quick to duel for the slightest affronts to that honor. They were however not all about putting millions of so called untermenchen into concentration camps or gassing them. I would like to think that Bismark was spinning in his grave during the years 1934-1945.

The NAZI's were all about the lower classes of workers and had created their own army (The SA stormtroopers) under Ernst Rohlm. Hitler had to get rid of this party army in order to pursuade the national army's officer corps to follow him when he became Chancellor. Many of the Wermacht's best officers like Hans Guiderion were not party members. They followed orders because Hitler was the legally constituted leader of the nation. To see the difference you have only to look at the Afrika Korps Vs the Waffen SS to see the differnce in honor bewteen the old school and the new.


Ok, to get back ON TOPIC. I spoke to some of my South Korean friends(as if anyone has any NK friends) and they are scared s**tless! They are sure that as conditions degrade even more inthe DPRK Lil'Kim will be ready to head south to grab as much booty as he can. What can be done about it in their eyes is to let him make the first agressive move south before taking real (read military) action. They are really hoping that his health is worse then what is being released and that he will soon join the "Great Leader" in running things from the great beyond. They also said that SK and the US should be covertly feeling out the second string of leaders in the DPRK and Kimmie's son to see if a palace coup could be in the making...

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You're absolutely right in your tactical assessment (in my opinion) but you're glossing over the strategic reasons behind it. Germany doesn't have the capacity to wage this type of war because it no longer has imperial aspirations as a nation. They have chosen to seek protection and balance through mutually beneficial economic and military alliances. This has as much to do with the restrictions placed on them by the victorious allies in WW2 as it does with their evolution as a nation state.

It isn't that they aren't capable. They just have no need for it.

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2011 Mazda2
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Hardly, they viewed the Nazis as uneducated, working class, thugs.


Why do you think the Waffen SS existed? It was because the Nazi leaders distrusted the army.

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DAK was created by OKW and OKH as a blocking force to help the Italians, it was cobbled together from elements of other divisions. Rommel was put in command.

Eventualy the very able 15th and 21st Panzer divisions were included, and Hans Von Lucks 90th Light.

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