Seeking advice from woodworkers (again) on finish - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BodhiBenz1987 · #1 06-07-2009, 05:44 PM

... so I'm diving back into the wood finishing ordeal for the console of my 300D. As some of you might remember, my last effort came out great, but crazed after 7 months. I used Magnalac, way too thick for its specs, and paid the price. However, I did love the way is flowed out, how easy it was to finesse afterward and the way it looked as a finished product. I have stripped the pieces and am in the process of sanding them. The veneer is holding up well to a second sanding but I'd have to guess this is my last shot with it ... so I want to pick the right finish. I've gotten some advice here before, but I'm still not sure which way to go, and I haven't been able to get much face-to-face advice in stores. I looked into some of the pour-on or brush on marine finishes, but I'm not that comfortable with the pour or brush method, and I also get the feeling the hardened product is not as workable as the lacquer was. I also don't think the boat finishes would necessarily give me the look I want. I did look at an "easy" pour-on finish at Woodcraft and wasn't impressed with the look. I've experimented with off-the-shelf nitrocell lacquers, not pleased. So ... I looked at ML Campbell's line-up again and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on their EuroBild Clear system. It is a two-part Polyurethene that can be sprayed on top of a sealer. The info sheet says it can be built to 12 mils (Magnalac said no more than 3-4) and it doesn't seem to have the reputation that Magnalac has. I had also considered MagnaMax, which is another pre-cat lacquer with a better rep than Magnalac. Thoughts from wood guys here?
This was what my last job looked like in its glory days. I would like it to look exactly like this again ... sans the eventual cracking.

jt20 · #2 06-07-2009, 07:34 PM

I am not sure why there is such an emphasis on 'specialty' products here. Are the conditions in the car that severe that a traditional lacquer will not hold up?

The general theory is:

more THIN coats = more durable / long lasting finish.

trying to get a glossy / even finish in one or 2 coats is energy wasted.

Guitars can have over 8-12 coats of lacquer sanded before each application. They look like glass

BodhiBenz1987 · #3 06-07-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt20

I am not sure why there is such an emphasis on 'specialty' products here. Are the conditions in the car that severe that a traditional lacquer will not hold up?

The general theory is:

more THIN coats = more durable / long lasting finish.

trying to get a glossy / even finish in one or 2 coats is energy wasted.

Guitars can have over 8-12 coats of lacquer sanded before each application. They look like glass

I don't necessarily need a specialty or fancy product. If there's something I can buy at Lowe's that will look like above and has solid testimonials, I'd be happy to give that a try (actually a lot happier when it comes to price). When I tried what I was told was a quality nitrocel lacquer (and probably waas) off the shelf of Woodcraft, it looked fairly nice but I found even after it cured it scratched fairly easily and I had trouble buffing it to an even shine. The pre-cat was very scratch resistant. I did apply it in about 8 thin coats, sanding down between each, it was days before I finished, and I'd gladly put that effort in again ... the Magnalac just was not intended for high-build use. I'm sure there's a lot of products that would work, but I don't want to just guess, and I haven't gotten much out of workers at Lowe's, Woodcraft or True Value. So I'm just looking for some "Yeah, that will crack" or "that's impossible to work with" or "XXXX brand is easy to use, holds up and looks great."
Actually I often see guitars with the finish I'm looking for, so maybe I should look for a guitar craftsman and ask advice. Probably some shops around here.

jt20 · #4 06-07-2009, 08:28 PM

do you know how thin 3-4 mils is? if you put a product on too thick.. it could certainly cause premature cracking.

do you think you applied the magna-whatever too thick? How did you decide on using magna-whatever?

Sorry, I don't have any product recommendations.

BodhiBenz1987 · #5 06-07-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt20

do you know how thin 3-4 mils is? if you put a product on too thick.. it could certainly cause premature cracking.

do you think you applied the magna-whatever too thick? How did you decide on using magna-whatever?

Sorry, I don't have any product recommendations.

I know I applied it too thick. I now know how thin 3-4 mils is, but did not know it until after I finished the project. Not much I could do then but wait. It started to crack the first night I left the car out in freezing weather ... came out in the morning and there were the cracks. It progressed over the winter. So it's possible it was intolerance to cold, but my guess would be it was also because it was too thick (or a combination). I have no explanation for why I thought I could put it on so thick. Believe me, I'm aware it was stupid, and I kick myself for it every day. Which is why I'm trying to a pick a winner on try No. 2.
I don't remember exactly where I got the idea for Magnalac, but I believe a couple people here thought pre-cat would be a good idea since it is generally tougher than nitrocell. So I searched for reputable brands of pre-cat, basically just read product descriptions. ML Campbell seems to have a good rep in general, but apparently Magnalac is somewhat of a black sheep in their product line.

Hatterasguy · #6 06-07-2009, 08:49 PM

I'd stay away from a brushable varnish. Your good, but you need artist skill to get close to the stock Mercedes finish with a brush. Although a brushed or sprayed on Epifanes would give you a supurb finish. Mercedes sprays the wood at the factory in a dust free spray booth. Judgeing by the way it pops with a heat gun its an acrylic clear of some sort.

I would spray on a clear coat, maybe Awlgrip like they use on the new high end wood boats. Make your own booth to keep the dust down.

Ask my friend, he is one of the best wood refinishers I know.
http://www.dakotamarine.com/

jt20 · #7 06-07-2009, 08:50 PM

sounds like you just need to apply it correctly. You may have already chosen a good brand, but thickness certainly plays a major role in a products ability to expand and contract within its shear limits.

I can almost tell from the pictures that for most products, that is a very thick coat. I am no expert either.

If it went on thick because it was hard to work with, ask the company what a safe solvent / thinner would be. Thin it out real good and make it workable before applying it. This will give you that gloss you are looking for without the brush strokes.

edit: spray would certainly be the better option.

tonkovich · #8 06-07-2009, 09:58 PM

uh, lacquer is too brittle for what you are trying to do. (i used to sell paint for a living, but that's another story) acrylic products are more flexible, but don't brush well. oil varnish is a happy medium for some - more brushable than latex acrylic - stronger than lacquer. the best would be to spray a latex acrylic; otherwise, brush the oil, after thinning it a wee bit. (please wear a charcoal filter double respirator when working with any of these products; binks or 3m brand.)

happy hunting!

jubjub · #9 06-08-2009, 08:35 AM

Why not take the pieces to a cabinet shop and have them spray it for you? I just started using ML campbell Krystal conversion varnish. Supposed to be one of the better products out there.

Fulcrum525 · #10 06-08-2009, 09:39 AM

I'm going to be following this thread closely to see how it turns out. My center console is definately getting to the point where it needs to be redone.