What's the deal with these micro-cars!?! Diesel defensive rant.. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

awsrock · #1 06-30-2009, 11:36 AM

Seriously, the front page of MSN autos has three different features on some small, ugly weird car, and one lovely article about how all 2010-bound non-German diesels have been scrapped.

Here's a great example of irony..

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1075156
"Aston Martin teams with Toyota"

So, people will spend 33,000 on this piece of junk, but won't opt to buy a 4 cylinder diesel Mercedes??? Even if it has 369 ft lbs of torque?? What is wrong with this country anyway? (It's all about image, apparently)

It seems that the "future" is small cars, which won't get much better mileage (as we can all see in the Honda Fit, Kia whatver, Scion x whatever, etc.) (Ok, so the Fit gets ok mileage, but many of these other weird boxes can barely break 30 on the highway)

I really think people should take a look at things and realize that you can still drive a normal sized car with a diesel and get way better mileage than with any of these little things...because in the end, that's really what it's all about..mileage. Who actually WANTS to be cramped?

Or is this all a big scam that the car companies are using just so they can meet EPA fleet mileage requirements, and continue to make inefficient, torqueless gasoline engines that need to get up to 6000 rpm before they make any power?

Rant over

TX76513 · #2 06-30-2009, 11:40 AM

I just consider those "press releases". Just a way to get free advertising - not really news or a point of view.

pawoSD · #3 06-30-2009, 11:53 AM

Torqueless is right.....gas engines are wimpy....especially the small ones.....

I will never understand why people won't buy into the diesels....they are so much more efficient and fun to drive.

HuskyMan · #4 06-30-2009, 12:06 PM

diesels have an image problem in this country. they are seen as dirty noisy polluters which is far from the truth. second generation diesels are smooth, quiet and get excellent fuel mileage. I'll never forget my first test drive of a Chevrolet Duramax pickup truck. it felt as though there was enough torque to take on a corvette. diesels forever.

TheDon · #5 06-30-2009, 12:23 PM

is honda still bringing its diesel over? I must know

aklim · #6 06-30-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Torqueless is right.....gas engines are wimpy....especially the small ones.....

I will never understand why people won't buy into the diesels....they are so much more efficient and fun to drive.

Not just a diesel. It will have to be a Turbodiesel otherwise it will be gutless too. Sure, they can tow like there is no tomorrow but without forced induction, they will be just as bad. You'd have to give me a 97 E300 before I would drive it. I can barely stand the E300 after it has been chipped.

I have never seen a "diesel only" fuel station but I have seen plenty of "gas only" fuel stations. Even those that have diesel, I am a 2nd class citizen. When it gets really cold, I have to add anti-gel stuff. Fuel stations are dirty around diesel pumps. I have to wear disposable gloves to pump fuel or get diesel on my hands. My Vette has all the low end torque the tires can handle and more. I drove it this weekend to take a "diesel break". The only reason I have the Excursion is I need to tow and it would cost too much to add forced induction onto a gas vehicle when I go up high altitudes. The E300 was there because I needed to go long distances. If we didn't drive 180 miles a day, I'd be using gas all day long.

aklim · #7 06-30-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

I'll never forget my first test drive of a Chevrolet Duramax pickup truck. it felt as though their was enough torque to take on a corvette. diesels forever.

How would the Duramax be WITHOUT the turbo or if you mated a turbo onto the Vette? I don't care what it feels like but put them on a drag strip and see which driver will be sucking down a cold one and which will be trying to cross the finish line.

HuskyMan · #8 06-30-2009, 12:44 PM

didn't say a duramax could beat a corvette, I said it felt as if it had enough torque to take on a corvette. fastest pick 'em truck I've ever had my hands on. the salesman opened the hood and placed a quarter on it's edge on the air cleaner as the big Duramax idled, AMAZING. and for $50K it should be amazing. some people are diesel heads, some aren't. I've always enjoyed the reliability and the highway fuel mileage. plus, there is just something about hearing the sound of a diesel engine that is reassuring. just heard that Mercedes Benz ran one of the new BlueTec diesels 400,000 miles NON STOP.

Medmech · #9 06-30-2009, 12:49 PM

Look at the new Volvos that America is never going to see.

C30: 60.3 mph and 104 g/km.
S40 and V50: 58.8 mpg and 107 g/km.
V70 and S80: 48.8 mpg and 129 g/km
XC60 and XC70: 39.2 mpg and 159 g/km

SwampYankee · #10 06-30-2009, 01:00 PM

Thanks EPA! And CA, and NY, and MA, and CT...

aklim · #11 06-30-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Thanks EPA! And CA, and NY, and MA, and CT...

Might not just be the EPA. There might be other issues like crash standards and what not. Maybe compliance would be too difficult. Didn't MB stop diesels for a few years past 99 and resumed them in 04 because of some fuel issue?

pawoSD · #12 06-30-2009, 01:31 PM

With the right tuning those diesel pickups can easily beat a " 'vette "

The "fuel issue" was that US fuel had to much sulfur to be burned in a clean diesel....now that we have ULSD its no longer an issue.

How would crash standards be any different for a diesel version of a vehicle? Diesel is safer, it does not explode or burst into flames like gas.

It all comes down to a dumb population with a bad image of diesels stuck in their brains.

The duramax engines sound pretty smooth, I've never ridden in one. I have ridden in a PowerStroke....they are a bit noisy, but have enough power and torque to pull down a building!

awsrock · #13 06-30-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How would the Duramax be WITHOUT the turbo or if you mated a turbo onto the Vette? I don't care what it feels like but put them on a drag strip and see which driver will be sucking down a cold one and which will be trying to cross the finish line.

Well, obviously there's a big difference between a Vette and a Duramax. Using either as a daily driver might be silly (unless you need to tow or get somewhere incredibly fast)
However, put that Vette engine in a pickup, and now your stuck with a lot of horsepower that you can't really use if you need to tow something...without wasting a ton of fuel.
Put the Duramax in a Vette, get laughed at

, but be able to smoke the hell out of anyone (with the excption of 0-60) without having to shift gears.
From what I hear, the Vettes actually get somewhat respectable gas mileage on the highway. There are always exceptions.

Now, adding a turbo to any diesel is going to make a huge difference, especially down low. Almost all new diesels are making peak torque at 1800 rpm or less, whereas most gas cars with a turbo are still peaking at 2500rpm plus (except maybe VW and Audi..and the new BMW)

Point being, there are always exceptions, but as a whole, the diesel is going to be better suited for daily driving. I don't really care if the whole country catches on; it would just be nice to have a few more models offered, and enough people to buy them new so that I can buy them cheap down the road.
However, when you start seeing a push (although who's pushing?) towards small, silly unsafe cars, solely in the name of saving a few mpgs, it really makes me wonder why people can't accept diesel as an alternative without having to give up certain "luxuries", aka space.

LUVMBDiesels · #14 06-30-2009, 01:41 PM

I would not mind a Arbath Mighty-Mouse
Plus if I get it in black, it could fit in the back of the Suburban and act as a dinghy!

Chrysler to Build Fiat 500 for U.S.

Four versions of the tiny Fiat 500 will go into production in early 2011 either at a U.S. Chrysler plant or one in Toluca, Mexico.

By Luca Ciferri of AutoWeek

Click to enlarge picture
The Fiat 500C convertible debuted in Italy last week.

Chrysler will build and sell four versions of the tiny Fiat 500 in North America starting in 2011: a hatchback, a convertible, a station wagon and a sporty hatchback.
A fifth model — a small, four-wheel-drive SUV — also is possible.
They will wear the Fiat brand. No longer-term plans exist for other Fiat-badged models in the U.S., the company said.
Roberto Giolito, designer of the 500 and head of styling for the Fiat brand, confirmed the plans last week at the launch of the 500C convertible in Italy.
The sporty hatchback is the Abarth version of the 500 hatchback, the popular 2008 European Car of the Year that Chrysler/Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne calls "our iPod."
The 500, which debuted in Europe in 2007, is scheduled to go on sale in the United States in the first half of 2011, Fiat brand CEO Lorenzo Sistino said. Production in North America is expected to begin in early 2011 at a Chrysler plant either in the United States or in Toluca, Mexico.
At 139.6 inches, the 500 hatchback is 33 inches longer than the smart fortwo but seats four adults instead of the fortwo's two. The 500 is about 10 inches shorter than Toyota's Yaris hatchback.
On the wagon version, the wheelbase is stretched 3.1 inches, to 93.7 inches.

aklim · #15 06-30-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

With the right tuning those diesel pickups can easily beat a " 'vette "

How would crash standards be any different for a diesel version of a vehicle? Diesel is safer, it does not explode or burst into flames like gas.

It all comes down to a dumb population with a bad image of diesels stuck in their brains.

The duramax engines sound pretty smooth, I've never ridden in one. I have ridden in a PowerStroke....they are a bit noisy, but have enough power and torque to pull down a building!

But is that comparing a tuned Vette to a tuned diesel? Why to many diesels have turbos in them now as standard if it wasn't necessary? Turbos are there to increase efficiency otherwise it would be a dog all around.

I'm just wondering about the car crash standards and not just the fuel burning issue

I think that was way long ago in another generation.

But that is what the powerstroke is for. Towing. I would agree that towing wise, you need a turbodiesel. For street driving, I'm not so sure.