According to the report, Crowly DID leave or try to leave the residence with Gates screaming and yelling at him, threatening him, accusing him of being racist, etc, etc. In fact, IIRC, he kept asking for Crowley's name and badge 3 times and could not hear it over his own yelling and screaming.

Yes. And the undercover cop lured me into propositioning her and arrested me for trying to solicit a hooker. Sure. :rolleyes: I supposed he forced Gates to make a scene and refuse to tone it down. Sorry, you may and I do too, suspect that Gates might have had enough and hoped he would commit a crime outside but does that excuse Gates for his behavior? I suppose in the case I mentioned, you would say that the hooker made me proposition her?

Simple question. Did he create a scene and was he told to stop twice? IOW was he given warning to stop disturbing the peace or whatever the charge was? You want to argue that Crowley got him on a technical violation, have at it. Fact was that Gates did break the law. That he got an Obama-pass doesn't mean squat.

Gates wanted Crowley's name and badge number. Crowley said that he would have to follow him outside if he wanted that information. When Gates stepped outside Crowley cuffed him. According to one account Crowley said that Gates made his day (or words to that effect) by stepping outside where he could be arrested.I don't know whether I've heard anyone in law enforcement criticize Crowley. I also haven't heard anyone explain what crime Gates supposedly committed. People keep throwing out terms like "disorderly conduct" but I have not heard or read anything that says exactly what is required to make that charge.A white cop comes into a black man's home requiring him to prove that he is not a criminal and you don't see how race plays a part?My goodness. You have a different view of the police than I do.

Aren't you glossing over several facts in that statement? He was given the name and badge 3 time and couldn't hear Crowley talk over his own yelling. And when he got outside, he kept yelling and screaming and was warned TWICE, not once, TWICE to keep it down. Even IF, and I stress the word "IF" your account is right, which I disagree, are you saying that Gates was forced to be disorderly in public?

I see. So your contention is that Crowley should have knocked on the door and saw it was a black guy and knowing he was white, should just say "Sorry to disturb you. Wrong door. Have a nice day."?

Right. Now, please explain what crime was committed.Definitely not.That's why I rarely respond to your posts. I don't enjoy having my words twisted.

I meant what I said. That's all. I didn't say any of the crap in your response.

From what I can see, disorderly conduct. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_sgt_james_crowley_cop_who_arrested_henry_louis_gates_denies_hes_a_racist.html

You are not forced to keep me off your ignore list.

Sorry, I can't see how race plays a part at all. PErhaps you would be good enough to explain that part. Crowley was responding to a call. It wasn't like he was trolling around black areas to harass black people. Gates started screaming and yelling. It wasn't like Crowley got nasty at the beginning. He had a duty to check out a report and he executed his duty. Now if you have a history of giving white people a pass and demanding proof of black people, sure. The only thing different Crowley could have done initially is to do as I said. Walk away and not investigate the incident. Otherwise, what else do you expect him to do to avoid this?

Some folks just can't get over the fact that "your home is your castle" isn't as true anymore as it used to be and understand that we don't live in Medieval England anymore...

Now, Gates was whippin' on his front door and had another person assisting in that process...

Neighborhood individual sees the incident, phones it in on their cellphone and reports exactly what they are witnessing...two individuals, black in color, working over a front door of a home in their neighborhood...the caller hasnt' gone over to "ask" or "confront" the two because they outnumber the caller by a factor of 2 to 1...

Dispatch sends over a few cruisers...not knowing if the "perps" are armed or not and since the caller hasn't confronted the two...nobody knows anything more...

At this point...I'm willing to bet that the people in the cruisers are "amp'd up" just a little...they know barely anything about the situation and they are driving into ... what?

Now, the officers arrive...

According to what's been printed, the two are Gates and the cab-driver (correct me if I'm wrong on that part)...now the fun begins...

Are Gates and the cabbie inside Gates' home at this point? I'm not clear on that point...

I'm sure the officers were able to get some ID from the cabbie but, apparently, when asked for ID, Gates assumes (remember that word) that he's in his home, he doesn't have to provide any ID to anyone, and bursts out with the "I'm black..." comments - thereby, immediately using language that's suppose to mean "Back off, you ain't getting anything from me 'til I'm represented by a lawyer..."

Somewhere, ID is finally presented...and I'm guessing Gates is still filling everyone's ears with "I'm black and you're the "man" getting on me because I'm black..." And this is occurring WHILE Crowley and company, along with Gates, are still within Gates' residence...no cuffs at this point.

Now, as the ID part has already been "settled" - there's the part when the officers are trying to LEAVE the Gates' home...instead, we have what has already been determined to be an agitated BLACK MAN, now following a police officer out the door after being given the information he demanded (remember the key word here...AGITATED) and he is WARNED, TWO TIMES, TO SETTLE DOWN or he's going to be arrested for disorderly conduct.

As I see it...anyone yelling at an officer, let alone FOLLOWING SAID OFFICER, is lucky "disorderly conduct" is all that they got (pardon the intended pun) "nailed" on...

Seeing the photographs, Crowley could have taken Gates, slammed him down on the porch, neck-stepped him while cuffing him at the same time...and he didn't do anything of the sort.

Where in this country, or any country for that matter, does anyone give any officer a hard time and then continue to follow them and yell at them and EXPECT a pat on the back, a hand-shake and a "Have a nice day!" when the officer is leaving?

We may have a right to be a88hole8 and we may have the right to free speech, and we do have the right to be secure in our own dwellings...but Gates brought the "fight" to the streets when he stepped out the front door, FOLLOWING A LAWFULLY SWORN-IN POLICE OFFICER, whose was leaving his place of residence, and was WARNED, twice, to settle down OR HE WOULD BE ARRESTED for disorderly conduct.

If I was the President (not of the US) of Cambridge University, I'd have Mr. Gates in MY OFFICE and I'd seriously be looking at his conduct and the validity of his own teaching credentials...it's obvious that Gates wants to have two worlds of civility...and the US version is still too "white" (read: civil) for his tastes...

The situation didn't deserve Gates' response at all...and anyone that keeps trying to defend it, IMHO, is a racist themselves, whether they want to admit it or not...

I've said it before and I'll say it again...any officer; black, white, hmong, asian, red or military (and even mall security guards :rolleyes: ) are doing a job that WE, the tax-paying citizens of the community, are paying them to do...protect and defend. If they have ANY REASON to come up to me, or anyone I'm with, and want to see an ID, they are getting the ID and maybe a question or two about "whatsup?" and I'll try to get they're number/name if I can...

But, I'm not busting out any race-card...I'm not following them anywhere and I'm not going to break-out in any "civil-liberty" sing-song at full volume at the detriment of my own personal freedom, if I'm so warned.

The fact that "O" made a comment about any of this, despite the fact that the press was "goading" him into a response, shows that our President is still in the learning stages of being a public servant...something he should have been learning when he was in the State House of Illinois and when he should have been fine-tuning while he was a Congressman from Illinois...teleprompter, handlers or whatever be damned...he needs to learn when and where to open up and when and where not to peep, or in this case, not pull a "Biden"... :eek: :rolleyes: :D

Gates needs to get off the blogs and web and reassess his "teaching" commitments to the Cambridge community...he obviously doesn't practice what he preaches...or at the least, he does demonstrate the Leftist's position of "Do as I say, but not as I do." :sad:

Crowley is the youngster in this case (I believe "O" is older than him, right?) and as such, he's the one that acted more adult than the other two, combined. And as a public servant, Crowley could be teaching both men how to behave in public and what verbal, and physical, restraint is really all about. :thumbup1:

And it might not hurt to have Biden sit in on the verbal lessons, too! :D

They both over-reacted.

Then the president stepped in to defend his friend.

That made for 3 mistakes.

Obama is guilty of defending a friend. The other two are guilty of arrogance.

Beer at the White House more than makes up for it.

Well said.

Really? Can you cite any statutes or cases? If not, then how do you know that Gates violated any laws?

I don't claim to be an authority on Massachusetts law, but your analysis seems to conflict with these court cases:Leave once Gates showed that he was rightfully in his own home.

I heard the black officer's remarks on video and saw pictures of him at the scene.

I'm certain that black con men and black criminals caught in the act pull the race card whenever it might suit them. I have little doubt that most black cops have heard that many times and are just worn out on it. Policing is not an easy job. A police officer who is maintaining calm deserves more respect than it appears to me that Gates was offering up. We do not want it to become normal, accepted behavior for anyone to respond with hostile resistance anytime an officer acts on reasonable suspicion of something to protect the general public.

Black on black crime is real, it is no joke. I just spoke to my long time Seattle area artist buddy in the Black community (MLK murals and the like) and he told me that he's been treated much worse by black people in his life than by whites. Old ladies in the cab used to tell me the same thing. My bud went on to say that not long ago, black folk were getting lynched and now they complain about being called an affirmative action baby, i.e., things could sure be worse.

What would Gates' attitude have been if white police officers failed to protect his property? Perhaps "White police officers don't take the needs of the black community seriously!!"

I doubt that the officer invited him outside to lure him into committing a crime. Were I in the officer's shoes, I'd want to speak to him on a sort of neutral ground, with more liklihood of witnesses.

The black officer on the scene is in a better position than most to determine whether or not Gates' charge of racial profiling was legitimate and he said that he fully supported Crowley's actions.

Perhaps we need a new statute, one where people who do not really need to be arrested but who are nonetheless obstructing reasonable police work would be given an infraction, like a traffic ticket, which required that they come in for a light sort of court session, after tempers have calmed, and have a brief discussion with a justice or police ombudsman. In a group setting.

Civility matters.

Obama is being a good role model here. He has admitted that he over-reacted and needs to listen more closely to those involved.

We're not going to get perfect leaders, but I'll settle for this new improvement of having one who is not too proud to admit to error and who swiftly moves to correct it.

That's only part of the problem. I don't know whether Crowley was affected by race. For whatever reason, he decided that Gates exhibited so much disrespect for him that he deserved to go to jail. Crowley made the law be about him.Did Gates do that?True, but I hope we don't start arresting people for failing to be civil.

I would have avoided arresting him. I've heard Gates' remarks about this and it doesn't sound to me like he thinks he pulled the race card too rapidly. I wasn't there but the totality of what I know about it strongly indicates to me that he did. That's part of why I credit the black officer's opinion.

I was in traffic court on Friday (damn). Got an 85 mph reduced from $322 to $235. Oh well. There was an aging but powerful looking black man doing the protocol rap (in Oakland) prior to the justice, who was white in this case, coming in.

One guy walked away while the judge was talking to him (through an interpreter) and the judge admonished him. The black moderator guy several times told people gently but with unmistakeable firmness to turn off their electrical devices (as they'd already been told) and once said "this is not a recess, there will be no converstions in the court."

My point is, a police officer is sort of an extension of this. If an officer IS going off on a large ego trip, that deserves attention. Again, that's not my take here. The very position of police officer to the community deserves better than to be immediately be accused of de facto racial profiling.

Then he is indeed stupid.

Correction: He is very stupid and has wasted taxpayer money.

Police are supposed to be professionals who are not too thin-skinned to handle the verbal tirades that come with the job.

Kids on playgrounds across the country understand, "sticks and stones... but words will never hurt me." Is this officer weaker and more sensitive than a child?

Gates identified himself -- twice -- as requested. Crowley admits he believed Gates was who he claimed to be, and also admits he was prepared to leave.

Any indignant remarks made by Gates at that point should have no bearing on Crowley's actions.