People downloading music think agian - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Ara T. · #31 08-01-2009, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

I'm sure that UTube and other on-line video services are paying for the right to "rebroadcast" the material...let's be sensible about this...

Are you going to "rip" a song from a UTube Playout? To me, that's like taking a microphone from your cassette deck player/recorder and setting it up in front of your little sister's "close and play" stereo recordplayer and "ripping" Black Sabbath's "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" album...get real...

What the RIAA should have been fishing for was the folks that sold their material AFTER THEY bought it...that's were the ripoff originated and was perpetrated from the getgo...

I have no problem w/p2p as long as it's free for everyone and everyone has equal access...

That's why I have an issue with so-called SW piracy...I can't tell you how many times I go to open something that's been sent to me and the sender is using the "latest and greatest" hit from Billy-Bob G..

Well, guess what? My version of the oldies sucks so bad, I'm suppose to spend the next few frickin' hours searching the internet in dog-knows-what-kind-of-zones, looking for and down-loading some piece of code that will do dog-only-knows-what to the version of the program I'm trying to update, all for the benefit of reading some piece of tripe that got sent to me?

Or, better yet, I drain my wallet and hand the contents over along with my left nad to Billy-Bob G., so he can maybe dance the Watusi with the Watusi in Africa, and I can finally read my piece of tripe by the glow of the candles I have so I can keep the electric bill down just enough in order to afford another update to that computer that was suppose to make my life easier and fun.

Well, poke me in the eye and call me silly.

Hey mg, hope you had a good birthday.

I download software and music because I'm dirt poor and in college and I'd rather spend my money on girls and booze, to be perfectly honest. If there is a game or band I really want to support, I will buy it. Otherwise, I'll download it. If I wasn't able to download it so readily, I still wouldn't buy it anyways. Not like they're losing a sale from me.

mikemover · #32 08-01-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ara T.

Hey mg, hope you had a good birthday.

I download software and music because I'm dirt poor and in college and I'd rather spend my money on girls and booze, to be perfectly honest. If there is a game or band I really want to support, I will buy it. Otherwise, I'll download it. If I wasn't able to download it so readily, I still wouldn't buy it anyways. Not like they're losing a sale from me.

So using this "it's OK 'cause I'm dirt poor and need beer" logic of yours....

Next time I'm a little short on cash, I guess you won't mind if I drop by your place and help myself to your television, your computer, maybe some of your DVDs or video games?...... You know, I wasn't going to actually BUY a TV or computer anytime soon, but since you say it's OK if one is "poor", then I figure I'll just help myself sometime soon. Please forward your street address, so I know where to pick up my free stuff.

Wait.... Oh, that's STEALING?... Really?... I didn't realize it.

It won't be anything personal, ya' know... it'll only be 'cause "I can't afford it".

Mike

Squabble · #33 08-01-2009, 06:55 AM

will someone who cares actually address the tape trading thing from the 80's? where were the lawsuits back then.

mikemover: i was a touring musician too, put out three-ish albums, never had a major label deal, probably because of the genre of music. we put our albums on the internet because we put out HIGH quality vinyl along with cheap CD versions of our albums (and the prices reflected the quality, not the status quo). we did it all ourselves, no personal assistants, no corporate production house. you know as well as i that the artists make their money from the t-shirt sales and other merch. and from touring/ticking sales. it's the d-bags who shouldn't even be involved who get their money from CD sales. and those people should dry up like slugs in this business. the only artists left will be those who have heart and passion and the pre-fab "write my hit singles for me" plastic surgery jokes will be hung out to dry soon after. call it karma for turning art into big business and then maybe we could finally have another hard working, up from scratch, real band come out of the rubbish pile. not to mention the ludicrous b.s. of bands like metallica. they got their first recording deal by being "discovered" with their strong tape trading of their demo "no life 'til leather." and then they sue napster, the digital tape trade. why? because they need the money and are hard working creative musicians? nope, they've become greedy business men who used their giant money piles to try to force the world into their rules. no sympathies for filthy rich hypocrites. and saying 'if you love music, you have to buy it' is unfair, simple, and does not take into account what you are actually purchasing, which is made in china junk with music on it for a premium price. that's like saying 'if you love cars, you'll buy an american car.' you should be upset with everyone one here after the bailout because they choose a different product from elsewhere because of the QUALITY. same as every downloader i know, who doesn't want to pay $22 for something that is guaranteed to break in 6 months. that's not supporting musicians, that's supporting a broken system to make greedy people richer. there is no value/quality reward for buying music these days.

mgburg: yes you can rip songs from youtube: http://download.cnet.com/Free-YouTube-to-MP3-Converter/3000-2194_4-10665553.html?tag=rtcol;reldl
which, to me, is like recording a song off of the radio and listening to it whenever you'd like. isn't the real problem when you then try to sell it???

MTI: the original sharer in the p2p network buys a CD. he then posts it online for others to share, making no profit, selling nothing. others come check it out, and listen to it. is that not the same as a library paying for the original copy for others to check it out for free?

i'm not a music/movie/tv show downloader, i just see the real costs of each one of those items being b.s. and see people reacting to it. change the way it's done, don't sue everyone in the country until they play by your old rules. it's like if chrysler sued me for buying a used mercedes instead of one of their p.o.s. i know the difference in quality, i know what goes into them (and what doesn't), and i will not pay for that chrysler junk. if i want it, i'll get it from the junkyard or craigslist and that price will actually reflect what it's really worth, not the insane upcharge for nothing.

for better or worse, the system changed, and the music industry is saying "i'm taking my ball and going home!!!" it's just ridiculous. if they were actually concerned with what mikemover brings up, they would be on a marketing/PR rampage to try to give the world a reason to play by their rules. quality, price, packaging, artwork, etc. they would be in scramble mode to fix what is broken about their products. they'd find a brilliant way to fit into this ever changing world.

(i'll be away from a computer for a few days... i won't be able to respond until then.... but keep this up, it's very interesting)

Ara T. · #34 08-01-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

So using this "it's OK 'cause I'm dirt poor and need beer" logic of yours....

Next time I'm a little short on cash, I guess you won't mind if I drop by your place and help myself to your television, your computer, maybe some of your DVDs or video games?...... You know, I wasn't going to actually BUY a TV or computer anytime soon, but since you say it's OK if one is "poor", then I figure I'll just help myself sometime soon. Please forward your street address, so I know where to pick up my free stuff.

Wait.... Oh, that's STEALING?... Really?... I didn't realize it.

It won't be anything personal, ya' know... it'll only be 'cause "I can't afford it".

Mike

I didn't say it was morally right. I gave my reasons for downloading things... that's all... I dont like most music enough to pay for it (i have bought some Doors albums and some System of a Down albums though, because they are my favorite bands).

I'm not going to buy a 60 dollar game and be shafted if it turns out to be a piece of crap. I'll "pirate" it, decide if its worth my money and time, then buy it if it is. If not, delete. Big deal. I don't think I've ever paid money for a crappy overpriced microsoft product either. That's thousands of dollars in savings.

G-Benz · #35 08-01-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squabble

...i remember cd's costing upwards of $18.00 to $22.00 when i was in high school...

Actually, I remember when CDs were first introduced, they were $16...I was just finishing college.

It was a financial shock for most of us, when the vinyl counterparts were around $10 during the same era.

I remember reading up on the issue and discovered that the $16 price point was set so high because there were only 4 companies in the entire world with the technology available to manufacture CDs. It was assumed that the prices would go down considerably over time.

That never happened.

I have no love for the record companies. I don't download illegally, but I am happy that iTunes and other download sites offer alternatives to being forced to purchase entire albums full of lousy tracks in order to get one decent "hit".

dynalow · #36 08-01-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

So using this "it's OK 'cause I'm dirt poor and need beer" logic of yours....

Wait.... Oh, that's STEALING?... Really?... I didn't realize it.

It won't be anything personal, ya' know... it'll only be 'cause "I can't afford it".

Mike

Zackly!

My daughter used to download in HS and college. napster, etc. Then she gets a job in the Music industry on the selling (big name label) side and she got religion real fast.

WVOtoGO · #37 08-01-2009, 09:41 AM

This whole thread should have come to a screaming end with a well put post #30.

I think maybe today when I head to town, I’ll see if I can’t find JJDs: Rev it Up and Go Go.
And I’ll pay for it !! AS I SHOULD !!

"I didn't say it was morally right. I gave my reasons for downloading things... that's all..."
That’s all, my @ss !! You just posted to the world that you are a morally wrong person. But that it’s ok to be so, so long as you can justify it. Good God, man.

Some of you guys, I bet would justify starting a holocaust if you wanted to see one.
But then point fingers and ***** when you find yourselves next in line for the gas chamber.

Has the world become this selfish and self-serving? Lord, help us.

tbomachines · #38 08-01-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

But it should be the ARTISTS' choice to offer their music to the world for free. Not YOUR choice.

The REAL losers in all of this are the artists.

Artists no longer have financial and promotional support from the record labels, because the label knows that many people will just steal it anyway, so there's very little money in it for them.

Artists no longer have financial support from their fans, because it's the "internet age" and everyone thinks everything should be FREE!

Almost everyone who tries to rationalize illegal downloading contradicts themselves in the same manner: If the music that labels are offering is such crap, and is not worth the asking price, then why do you want it in the first place??? Why even bother to steal it if it's that bad?...

Now that pretty much every song in the universe is available for sale individually at itunes.com, etc., there is no excuse. If you think an album only has one good song on it, then cough up the 99 cents and buy it, and quit whining!

If you TRULY appreciate the artists who make the music that you love, then SUPPORT them. Buy the song, buy the album, maybe go to the show, maybe even buy the t-shirt.... Pay them for their work, just as YOU expect to be paid for YOUR work. This way, talented people can make a living and can continue to make music that you enjoy.

It's not about the record labels. Screw them. It's about the talented musicians and writers who are the REAL victims of illegal file sharing.

If you love music, stop stealing music.

Mike

I agree with you 100% on what you said here. No excuse when you can download 99 cent songs, and Amazon (where I get most of my music now) offers $5 full album downloads.

The underlined statement: At least for the stuff I listen to, most of the bands are funded fully from merch sales and personal record sales at shows (no middle man), and encourage sharing their music rather than asking you to go out to Best Buy and get their album for 20 bucks. That is their choice, which I happen to agree with. I have sympathy for the "struggling musician" lifestyle, I was there too as it became my only source of income sometimes. From the artist point of view, the companies are bad guys too, there is just no way to win here. I am pretty sure Snocap (myspace) offers funding directly to the band if they have the sole rights to the song, seems like a good option to me but I'd have to look into it more for the details.

Bottom line, the RIAA handled it incorrectly and is still doing so (sounds like the economy

). That being said, no reason not to use cheaper and legal alternatives. None of it is going to deter me from making music, nor any other artist. Whatever path they want to go down is their route - if they want to distribute it online for free, the more the merrier!

Just have to throw this in: There is something special and different about having a vinyl copy of things...can't get that in a download! Yes, I have nice big heavy crates to lug around

tbomachines · #39 08-01-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Under fair use laws, you can.

Just a bit of side info: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122800693.html

This was a nice big upset for the RIAA PR team. It was updated/corrected later, but this was big news and surely didn't help their argument much.

MTI · #40 08-01-2009, 02:15 PM

I'll stand by the current interpretation of "fair use." The issue is distribution, whether free or not, which violates copyright and is not "fair use" is still a violation. There is no distinction that the person is not getting a monetary gain.

Ara T. · #41 08-01-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

This whole thread should have come to a screaming end with a well put post #30.

I think maybe today when I head to town, I’ll see if I can’t find JJDs: Rev it Up and Go Go.
And I’ll pay for it !! AS I SHOULD !!

"I didn't say it was morally right. I gave my reasons for downloading things... that's all..."
That’s all, my @ss !! You just posted to the world that you are a morally wrong person. But that it’s ok to be so, so long as you can justify it. Good God, man.

Some of you guys, I bet would justify starting a holocaust if you wanted to see one.
But then point fingers and ***** when you find yourselves next in line for the gas chamber.

Has the world become this selfish and self-serving? Lord, help us.

Guess I'll be having trouble sleeping tonight

WVOtoGO · #42 08-01-2009, 07:19 PM

^^
Now that's a funny one.

Ara T. · #43 08-01-2009, 08:53 PM

If you have any more Nazi-Holocaust analogies, I could use another good laugh

Oracle12345 · #44 08-01-2009, 09:14 PM

#30 pretty much summed it up

WVOtoGO · #45 08-01-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ara T.

If you have any more Nazi-Holocaust analogies, I could use another good laugh

I actually found some humor in it myself.
(Though I don't recall mentioning anything about Nazis.)
But, I figured maybe you'd get the point.
That, or you're just dumber than a box of rocks.