"Birthers"...what do you think?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwgzYkTDsmQ

:wallbash:

A study recently came out showing that a large percentage of southern republicans believed that obama wasn't born in the united states. Nothing like a bunch of exremist whack-jobs giving southerns and conservatism a bad image.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/vp/32242576#32242576

For the record, the birth certificate has been released a number of times and is available online

Here's a good one with great comments too: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23580873@N05/3201196892/


I don't know how some Americans can be so incredibly stupid. This issue is deepening the rift between moderates (like me) and conservatives.

Actually they believe the president was born in the US but is not an “American.”

Wouldn't that make him a natural born American?

Edit: The study asks whether people think he was born in the U.S. And yes, I do realize it is an MSNBC report but still.

The 51st State of the Union . . . Denial

Those "birthers" are...
 

Natural-born "Palin/Wurzelbacher "(Joe the Plumber 2012") voters.

The *perfect*:mad: representation of everything the Republican Party now represents.

Personally I am of the opinion that he is not entitled to be President.

IMHO.

This is based on what I have read, etc.
His time in the Phillipines as a child makes his citizenship questionable. IMHO if you denounce your citizenship, you denounce it.
Also what I see as cover up, denials etc by the government.

THAT SAID.
I think removing him at this point would create near civil war, and huge ramifications with US / worldwide relationships.

Again IMHO, I think we would be much better off getting rid of the polititicians. I personally think that, unless he was created as a political puppet, his intentions are/were good. He just found out that the political system is so corrupt he couldn't fight it.
I fear he has given up, but I wish he would continue to stand up and fight it.

ie Remember his pounding the table that any of this Tarp, stimulus etc money that was spent wastefully would be reported publicly and brought up by his team.
I haven't heard a peep out of him or his team about any of the money being spent wastefully.
You and I know it's not all being spent wisely (IMHO the reverse), and I can even provide examples.

Where was he born?

- Peter

Could you elaborate on how his time in the Phillipines, and the dates he resided there, affects his citizenship.
And when did Obama denounce his citizenship?

Kapiolani Hospital for Women & Children, Honolulu, Hawaii

Please, it's easier to have "humble opinions" when they are unfettered by facts or evidence. ;)

I just don't like him, how is that?:D

Care to expand on that, you have approximately 3.5 years to complete that thought. :D

There must be an element of this movement that is just having a psychologically difficult time with the depth and breadth of the "different" President. It's understandable that there would be a backlash to such a historical event.

Exactly, I don't know what there even is to argue. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, and I am iffy on Obama myself, but accusations like these are completely baseless when the documents have been posted again and again, verified, and the simple fact that Obama has a passport is enough to show he is an American citizen.

I am also interested in hearing about when he renounced his citizenship....

'Wasted Election(From republican empire building standpoint)
 

It must be terribly frustrating,to be able to do nothing,other than attempt to
obstruct the orderly flow of government for four years;because you allowed
a nutcase to be placed before the public as a VP candidate.
After 8 years of cheney wrapping himself in Old Glory (and Terrorizing everyone)
and hoodwinking the uneducated,fringe element that had become
the republican party into allowing wholesale graft,corruption and crimes
against the Constitution...

What,self respecting, honest lady or gentleman would associate themselves
with such a group of criminals and idiots?

"TeaPartys", "Birther Movements" [code for republican racist activism],Etc.,Etc., Ad Nauseum...

The Lack of any rational leadership allows all the whacko fringe elements to
further emhamper the skeletal remains of what was once the gop.

To draw a direct parallel to the still (after 65 years) emboldened skin head
movement, the spiritual and political inheritors of the Nazi regime...
Would not be incorrect.

To denounce one's citizenship is quite different than renouncing one's citizenship. I've denounced my country a number of times for being an brutal imperial power unconcerned about the human rights of people in other countries, but I've never renounced my citizenship.
I also don't get why being in the Phillipines has anything to do with one's citizenship.

Thanks for bring the difference between renounce and denounce to my attention. I corrected my previous post to agree with the post to which I was replying.
As to the Phillipines, Obama never lived there. He lived in Indonesia.

Not part of the conspiracy, but a question

AFAIK the copies of his birth certificate posted everywhere have some questions of their authenticity. Would it be too difficult to have someone certify the original? Again, as I understand the issue, it is the failure to post such a simple thing that gives credence to the conspiracies. Would not the viewing of an unaltered original by some trust-worthy person or persons put an end to all of this?

That has been done, a number of times. The Republican bimbos that won't let go of the issue have nothing constructive to contribute to the countries problems. But that's no surprise.

Sorry to say...NOPE. Just like there's two sides to each story, in this case there are three sides:

The "Oer" side's.

The "Anti-Oer" side's.

Then, in the deep, dark recesses of a hermetically-sealed mayonaise jar, buried 6' 6-1/6" deep, next to the porch, outside the back door of the Funk and Wagnall Dictionary Depository, just a mere 3.8 miles S.W. of the beautiful downtown Burbank, there lies the unguarded truth...

Clearly the folks who think he was not born in the US didn't do well in Geography in school. They don't think Hawaii is in the US.;)

Ok first he was born in Hawaii, although no one has produced his Birth Certificate. Officials of Hawaii have confirmed it's existence, but refuse to provide a copy claiming some legal thing.
IF OB wanted to squelch these stories, rumors or whatever HE should be able to request a certified copy and provide it to ???
This is one reason I make reference to a cover up.

During his time in the Philippines (documented), in order for him to attend the school he did, he must be a citizen of the Philippines. Dual citizenship is not allowed.
So he may be a natural born American, but he gave up his citizenship.

Yes, it was his parents as he was very young, so I guess HE did not denounce.

My opinion and I don't claim to be convinced, is based on enough points to question his citizenship. Yet the only refuting of these points has been people saying yea he's a citizen, and courts just plain refusing to hear the case.
It would be too simple to just provide a certified Birth Certificate, and his side of the Philippine story to end this controversy. But no one has.

I read these various things before he was swarn it, so I'd have to go back and dig up the details. I have only kept cursory review since then, but again, have not heard any one from OBs side refute any of these points.

Read the full article, it presents a bigger picture (and concerns) than you typically hear.

And whoever accused this topic as being representative of Republicans needs to look at the cheesy smears and accusations leveled against Palin, and the same questions about McCains citizenship status last year. Looks like your team is guilty as charged. And McCain provided ALL the documents requested, and that shut the discussion down. What is Obama hiding?

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=

To summarize: What Obama has made available is a Hawaiian “certification of live birth” (emphasis added), not a birth certificate (or what the state calls a “certificate of live birth”). The certification form provides a short, very general attestation of a few facts about the person’s birth: name and sex of the newborn; date and time of birth; city or town of birth, along with the name of the Hawaiian island and the county; the mother’s maiden name and race; the father’s name and race; and the date the certification was filed. This certification is not the same thing as the certificate, which is what I believe we were referring to in the editorial as “the state records that are used to generate birth certificates [sic] when they are requested.”

I am unaware that the original has ever been viewed or certifed by some independent agaency.
All I hear is people like you saying," Its all been done, a number of times".

I really do not care--He is OUR President--whether by hook, or by crook. He will serve until a sucessor is elected. It just seems that it would be so easy to put an end to the discussion, but it goes on and on.

I never had a birth certificate either. They simply were not issued. Does that mean I'm not a native born American?
What Palin has heaped on her isn't relevent to this discussion. The fact that Republicans continually bring this birth certificate up instead of acting on congressional business is relevent. That's its still an issue to you just proves my point.

Certainly reality is comprised of much more that your awareness.
A simple search will provide all the evidence anyone with an open mind requires that the document of Obama's birth is genuine.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

There is no documentation Obama lived in the Phillipines. Mainly because he lived in Indonesia. If you can't get that simple fact straight-well.

Well here's one done by a reputable independent source....

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

edit: oh hey, my copy-paste didn't work.

I understand that announcements of bis birth appeared in 2 local papers at the time in question. I sorta doubt that those were planted years later.

Hawaiian officials have said the documents are authentic.

Then that makes him a Yank. End of story.

- Peter.

Birth certificate the new blow job (?!)

The problem is that there are no, or very few, reputable and independent source(s)"
Snopes, Annenberg etc all have an agenda. Since the ascendancy of "Advocacy Journalism", there is not a free and independent, investigative press any more. Everyone presents data that has been spun to convince people of the viewpoint of the writer.

I disagree. The problem is not that there are no, or very few, reputable and independent sources. The vital records people have certified his birth in the same way that they verify anyone's birth. The people responsible for keeping these records have said that they saw the original birth certificate and that it says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

What would you have them do? Get the original out and pass it around the country so that everyone can touch it and see it up close?

No, the problem is not a lack of reputable and independent sources. The problem is that people continue to play along with this racist nonsense.

As I said I read this a long time ago, so let's not nit pick. Basically It raises more questions than answers.
All OB has to do is simply provide a certified to Birth Certificate to a neutral party. The NY Times, Chicago Tribune ???

------------------------------------------------------
You see an MB on eBay/Craiglist "Spotless, perfect condition", you call they guy up and he repeats it so you say ship I'll send the money.
Yea RIGHT, you get someone you trust locally to verify the condition.
------------------------------------------------------

I also think we should just say F'it and move on.


OH and to the Racist comment, let's get over the racist thing.

I am upset we elected an African American to the Presidency, BUT if he was American of African descent I have no issue's with his race. AMERICA FIRST.

Factcheck is a nonpartisan source, the Annenberg foundation is a nonprofit fund. It is pretty dependable and pretty close to as independent as you're going to get. It isn't a news source.

You must have missed my link.

That you thought Obama lived in the Phillipines is evidence your understanding of the issue is far from complete. Why would a newspaper and it's attending agenda be considered neutral?
Obama's legal documentaion of his birth in Hawaii has been examined by enough parties to guarantee its authenticity.

Aside from not being a "natural born citizen" . . . you do know that he's an Arab Muslim and pals around with terrorists, right?

Neither is Alaska in the U.S.
So the Republican VP candidate was ineligible too.

I believe his original birth certificate was seen by the proper Hawaiian officials (one was a Republican IIRC) so that's not an issue for me.
But didn't he travel to Pakistan as a student when it was on the no-travel list? He couldn't have used an U.S. passport I think. And before the election he would not release his school records from the NY college he went to IIRC. He would most likely have to state his citizenship there.
If it turns out he doesn't meet the Constitutional requirements would any Supreme court justices he appoints now be invalid? Would Biden be able succeed a non-President? I do think he should put these things to bed so there is no doubt and he can work on the problems we face without unnecessary distractions from people who want to support him.

Really? How does one ever satisfy "theorist?" There's still a lively debate about the grassy knoll, the moon landing, Area 51, Elvis . . . "creationisim" . . . ;)

No can do. This birther nonsense wouldn't happen to a white president. This "controversy" is built in part on racism.Tell that to the birthers. They are undermining Obama's authority. There was a guy in the news a few weeks ago refusing to deploy to Afghanistan because he said that the Obama was not born in America and is therefore not the real Commander in Chief. His lawyer bragged that they had at least a few hundred other members of the military who intended to take the same position. If that happens, I hope every last one of them gets a dishonorable discharge. They are not putting America first.

I don't expect him to satisfy "theorist". There is no point for him not opening his school records.

Too many people have fought and died for our Constitution to not insure it is followed, especially when it imposes no hardship on Obama to do so.

And I like him for not appointing a far left nominee to the Supreme court when he probably could have.

You're right...because, by the time a white guy would have got sworn in, he would have been vetted out...McCain was accused and vindicated by a Democratically-controlled Congress...but that same Congress didn't have the 'nads to do the same to the other candidate. Now we want to do it?

Racism is "red herring" in all of this. Seems we had a few under B-43 that wanted to do the same...even under C-0.5 and B-41 too, but for slightly different reasons...some in uniform don't believe that the UN has any authority to command them...and I, personally, believe that to be true. But that's a different story altogether...I personally know of 3 persons that resigned their commissions under C's watch...just because of his positions...dog only knows how many REALLY GOOD OFFICERS AND MEN QUIT because of their SWORN OATHS and the love they felt for their country...

To some people, words mean something...

To a politician...you're screwed...and nothing has to be said...their actions speak loud enough. :rolleyes: :cool:

Due Process?
 

Certainly you of all people must mean that an outcome such as you desire could happen only after their due process rights are respected and they have their courts martials wherein there would be a full examination of all the facts! Right counselor?

Under this "Commander and Chief" the above mentioned officer's orders to deploy have been revoked.

Definitely. And I hope the end result of that process is a bunch of dishonorable discharges. I have no idea what process the law requires or what penalty is proper under the law. It is just my personal hope that it is dishonorable discharge in these cases.So I hear. I hope that's not the end of it. He needs to face the music.

<sigh>

That this nonsense is even being discussed is indicative of the right’s belief that the president is not a ‘loyal American,’ he may technically be a citizen but as an advocate of ‘internationalism’ and ‘world government’ is not fit to be president.

Needless to say the above in quotes is untrue and idiotic but it shows the pathetic extent to which Obama haters are willing to go to in an effort to overturn the 2008 election.

Not true at all, read the history. There were 3 or 4 previous presidents that had this type of controversy.

One was born in Panama, on a military base, but a lot of people did not accept this.
One was born in a state, supposedly before it was a state.

Don't remember the rest, was a quick blip thing on one of the news shows addressing this. Their conclusion was no conclusion.
As I recall they pretty much proved that one previous President wasn't quite legally allowed. It was a VERY fine line either way.

But again, let's get over it, move on and fix the real problems.

I just hope OB does better than he did as my Senator.
6 - 8 months as Senator.
6 - 8 months world traveler.
2+ years campaining to be president.

And if you detect I don't trust politicians, look where I come from.

Illinois, Chicago, Cook county where if a politicians is just corrupt he's probably as good as we get.

Does anyone really think the GOP wouldn't have investigated this issue?

If their was a shread of evidence that Obama wasn't a natural born citizen, or had irregularities in his birth documentation, I can assure you the GOP would have exposed it during the campaign. The fact that they didn't challenge his citizenship should be proof beyond any reasonable doubt for any rational person.

If you don't know the details of those other cases, then how do you know that they were "this type of controversy"?

I am not saying that we should ignore evidence that a president is illegitimate. I am saying that this President has proven his legitimacy. One reason the dispute continues is because some people can't accept that "type" of person in the White House. Racism is not the only thing motivating the birther nonsense, but it is part of the picture.

Can't speak for anyone but me...race has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I am a guy who "played by the rules"..i.e. worked my entire life, paid my SS and taxes, even though I realized 30 odd years ago that SS was a Ponzi scheme, and when the baby boomers all hit retirement< I would likely never see my promised benefits.
I am simply tired of seeing politicians slide by w/o concern for the rules that the rest of us must live by.
They deny us the right to carry fire arms---yest they are protected by men with guns.
I've never been arrested for DUI/DWI or anything, but 0.08 is a low limit--but politicians get to be repeat offenders--and they often have government provided chauffers and cars--yet they still drink and drive.
Health care options available to me vs health care options available to them
They have all kinds of percs of office which we pay for, and can never even see, let alone use.
There are plenty of reasons to distruct all politicians--who needs race?

So you're saying that he was not in fact born an American and that this legitimate fact-based argument is untrue and idiotic (reference to what you quoted)? I hope you just read that wrong...