So by this "car" analogy you have here. So say a mint condition MB is sitting in your driveway with no fuel filter and you are a master mechanic, certainly capable of repairing the car. You have the fuel filter in one hand and a screwdriver in the other but you're unwilling to take the 5 minutes to put it on and make the car complete, so you junk the car. It won't run without the fuel filter, but you have everything you need to fix it. Does that mean the car is bad? Sure I guess its a slightly more cumbersome way to get the car running but it is still there 100%. See how ridiculous this is getting? Agree to disagree and call it a night.

Thank you for finally admitting it. Maybe inconvenient to you, but you're not going through the document as I had originally thought.

Same goes to you, my friend

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

Following your non-fact based fantasy analogy you must be arguing that the task this mechanic would need to accomplish is precisely the same task that the entire engineering team at Stuttgart is admittedly incapable of accomplishing thus far and which they have stated we should expect to take weeks at best!

You in this case once again attempt to equate the effort required by a single individual to make sense of all the parts and pieces of this information with the collective efforts of the legislative staffs who have not been able to accomplish the same in six days running and thus far have offered no hope of accomplishing in less than multiple weeks. You either have an extremely high opinion of such an individual’s capabilities or an extremely low opinion of the collective capabilities of the legislative staffs responsible.

Sweet dreams little one!

Maybe he is and maybe he isn't!

But the brilliance on display in this thread:

http://www.peachparts.com//shopforum/showthread.php?t=258337

leaves no doubt where someone not a secretary is positioned!

Chas H:

Post # 12
In response to the danger of containers floating in the sea, they are required to have a means to cause them to sink after a short time in the drink.

Post # 15
"Originally Posted by R Leo
But what happens if they're loaded with ping pong balls or rubber duckys?
No sinkee."

I dunno, and I suspect neither do you. But if some mechanism can let in water and let out air, it can also let out duckies and ping pong balls.

Post # 18
"Originally Posted by kerry
The ones I've been in don't appear to have sinking mechanisms"


How could you possibly know that?

Post # 19
"Originally Posted by R Leo
I may know more than you realize.

I just happen to have a TEU here and I'll tell you one thing, there is no 'mechanism' to sink it (other than ventilation holes) or let the duckys loose. If it was completely full of something reasonably buoyant, it would probably float with about 2-3" of the top exposed.

Being the clever fellow you are, you'll know the answer to this:

Is it duckys, or is it duckies?"

Don't matter how you spell it. They still get out.

Some things that have fallen off container ships and then washed ashore months and years later:

Sneakers 1992: Five containers of Nike sneakers fell off a ship heading from South Korea to Seattle, resulting in 80,000 floating shoes. They washed up on beaches all over the Pacific Northwest.

Toys 1992: A container fell off a ship crossing the Pacific, sending 28,800 floating toy ducks, frogs, turtles and beavers from a company called The First Years into the water. Many came ashore in Japan and Alaska, but some crossed the North Pole and were found in the North Atlantic. They are still being discovered by beachcombers today.

Hockey gear 1994: Cargo from two 20-foot-by-40-foot containers that fell overboard crossing the Pacific — about 34,000 hockey gloves, chest protectors and shinguards — washed up on the coastline between Oregon and Alaska.

Legos 1997: Nearly 5 million Lego pieces were lost in a container, one of 60 that fell off a ship near Land's End in the UK. Ironically, many of the pieces were sea-related, such as 418,000 diver flippers, 26,000 life preservers, 97,000 scuba tanks and 4,200 plastic octopuses.

Post # 24
"Originally Posted by kerry
By opening my eyes and looking around.
Because you didn't see it it's not there?"

The facts don't support your observations.


The world according to someone not your secretary either, "Containers are required to have a means to cause them to sink after a short time in the drink washed ashore months and years later." Thanks!

I continued your analogy, not my fault if its fantasy. Let me explain this more, maybe you will see my point of view: Engineers at stuttgart = legislators who made the original bill, which = MB. The bill is pretty much all there except for a couple small parts (= fuel filter). An individual has the tools (screwdriver = internet) and the parts missing (amendments = FF) and is just waiting for someone else to put it together. I guess there could be a mechanic introduced that would be the metaphoric legislative staff, to put the thing together.

Is an individual not capable of putting this together if he/she is reading the bill? I do have high opinions of an individual who goes out of his/her way to read 1000+ pages of legislation, regardless of amendments - you're right.

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

I didn't ask you to be the secretary...you threw the link(s) out there just like tbomachines and you keep saying "It's all there."

Simple fact of the matter: It's not all there...and that's the point.

It's not all in one area either...that's the other point.

Fine...partial education is what has this country in the state that it's in...complete and blind loyalty to those in charge without holding them to a higher standard...then accusing those that shine the light on them of blinding them and keeping them from doing a better job.

If you say "No tax increase on the Middle Class" - you'd better stick to it or you'll get eaten alive in your first term like Bush I. was.

If you say "Complete Bills will be posted on the Internet" - then quit putting out bills that don't have all the markups in 'em and say the bill has been posted...either it's complete or it isn't...and in this case...who the hell can tell?

I can't speak for "Billybob" (Nor' should I!), but when you offer it, I'll except the apology. And to further show good will, you don't have to offer it in public...a PM will do nicely. Don't worry, I won't tell your buds...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

I think thats a point that is quite valid - I'm surprised they haven't at least grouped all of the "agreed" amendments together into one page and presented it that way. I don't know what they've been doing over there on capitol hill...maybe sitting with their thumbs up their butts so they can't type.

Btw Chas, the link on 15 is the old version of the bill - go to the next page and you'll see the link to all the amendments.

We agree that the amendments are there and the old bill is there and you can put it together, albeit a clunky way of doing it. But, is anyone on here really trying to read the bill in its entirety or are we just blowing smoke? Really how many Americans are going to download a final single-copy amended bill to read through it page 1-1026? This is why I hold such a high opinion of the individual who is able to do this - I believe that the only people who are even willing to undertake the task are the lawyers, health company legal dept, etc. who have the capability of putting it together and comprehending it themselves. It would save them a few minutes but the same info...

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

I'm still not your secretary. The bill was posted on line. If you or anyone thinks otherwise, complain to the responsible party in congress.
I dunno why you expect an apology. It's not my fault you're the way you are.

"a mechanic introduced that would be the metaphoric legislative staff"

haven't been able to accomplish putting together the very parts they've created for six days and have said it will take them a couple weeks on the individual taxpayer's dime!

Only time will tell if there is an individual who after already paying for both the engineers and mechanics has the wherewithal to ultimately accomplish that which a legislative staff has not. I suppose that if such an individual exists that person should replace said staff which can't.

It's not that I don't, won't, or can't see and respect another's point of view; it is often that multiple individuals look at the same fact and register different perceptions. I understand and accept your right to your views, however unsupported.

Thank you...that's the point.

I have to draw up some documents for my station now and then...I try to be concise where I can and I do refer back to previous paragraphs and the like...but I make sure the Company Attorneys look over everything before it goes out to the other parties...

So, if you're going to read something like the HR3200, you'd better start at Page 1 and keep a few legal pads on hand...some changes in the bill, as it was posted on Post 15, had just a simple word change...but in the world of bills and spending, one word, apostophe or comma can be the difference between having to raise taxes or not. In this one case, it was simply changing a year (it probably was a mis-type from the original draft) from 2002 to 2020. But, that's why these things NEED to be gone over with a fine-toothed comb BEFORE ANYTHING GETS VOTED ON.

To argue anything different is foolish at best and down right criminal at the least. It could, for sake of another argument, be considered not only criminal, but treasonous. But, let's leave that one on the side for now...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

^ word of warning to all, this guy is never refuted.

Take the shortcut. Read the Executive Summary, CBO style here.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10400/07-26-InfoOnTriCommProposal.pdf

July 26, 2009


Honorable Dave Camp
Ranking Member
Committee on Ways and Means
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515

Dear Congressman:
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) recently completed a preliminary analysis of the specifications related to health insurance coverage that are reflected in the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act, which was released by the House Committee on Ways and Means on July 14, 2009.
Among other things, those specifications would establish a mandate for most legal residents to obtain health insurance, significantly expand eligibility for Medicaid, regulate the pricing and terms of private health insurance policies, set up insurance “exchanges” through which certain individuals and families could receive federal subsidies to reduce the cost of purchasing insurance, and offer a “public plan” option similar to Medicare through those exchanges. For reasons outlined in CBO’s July 14 letter summarizing that analysis—and in our letter of July 17, which took into account the other parts of the legislation that would raise taxes or reduce other spending—our analysis to date does not represent a formal or complete cost estimate for the draft legislation.
The attached analysis responds to your request for additional information about the effects of the specifications regarding health insurance coverage. In particular, you asked about the effects on enrollment in private coverage, in the new public plan, and in Medicaid; the effects on private-sector insurance premiums and the labor market; the longer-term cost of the plan; and the allocation of its net budget impact between outlays and revenues. Because of the complexity of the changes that have been proposed and their potential effects, we are unable to address all aspects of every question that you raised.
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