In a way, that is the primary test, isn't it.
The question is one of authority. Am I the authority in my life, or do I submit to the authority of another? In fact it is the most basic understanding of the biblical story of "the Fall". Was Adam to be under God's authority, or his own? Many Christians understand the fall of Satan to be exactly that rejection of God's authority and the elevation of self, the great, "I Will", rather than, "If God wills, I will do...."
Sometimes following an authority outside of yourself is significantly more difficult than you imagine. Sometimes it is easy.

__________________
1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Which is not really possible. You've chosen to submit yourself to content of a specific book. You could have chosen another book. You also have to interpret the book and there are lots of viable competing interpretations. Even if you don't submit yourself to a book and submit yourself to God directly as a lot of recent Christian theology has recommended, you still have to decide what is the voice of God and what isn't.
Most of the time with the religious people that I know that decision is not a conscious decision because what they claim to be submission to God is just going along with what another person says God wants.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

You dont understand why I quote scripture????.........

Heres why!!.........

Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.



Yep its' true.....Our words/we will soon be forgotten........

__________________
Matt (SD,CA)

1984 300SD.. White/Chrome Bunts..Green

1997 2500 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve 36 PSI of Boost = 400+hp & 800+tQ .. ..Greenspeed

2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Quad Cab Cummins 5.9 H.O "596hp/1225tq" 6 spd. Man. Leather Heated seats/Loaded..Flame Red....GREENSPEED

Global warming...Doing my part, Smokin da hippies..

Fight the good fight!......

That's not it at all. It's not that you quote scripture or why. We all know why.

The issue is that you expect this to be an argument. It isn't.

I could quote from Liber AL vel Legis (The Book of the Law) and you would find it just as unconvincing as I find it myself. It also claims itself to be true.

Pretty much because you think that because you are convinced by some scribblings others will be convinced by it too.

Your words and you maybe.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Hi Matt...

Oh but it is.....It is the ultimate argument...For Gods word DIRECTLY address's the point/question........

__________________
Matt (SD,CA)

1984 300SD.. White/Chrome Bunts..Green

1997 2500 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve 36 PSI of Boost = 400+hp & 800+tQ .. ..Greenspeed

2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Quad Cab Cummins 5.9 H.O "596hp/1225tq" 6 spd. Man. Leather Heated seats/Loaded..Flame Red....GREENSPEED

Global warming...Doing my part, Smokin da hippies..

Fight the good fight!......

I've read the Bible. Have you read Liber AL? It makes similar claims, yet it and the Bible cannot both be correct. But both of them can easily be fantasy, and that's my opinion of them.

Edited to add: it is clear that I do not believe Liber AL to be the truth, or I would not recommend it to you!

I have posted only 3 times in this thread (this being the third) because arguing with people about religion is like beating your head against a brick wall. Religious zealots are addicted, just as a drug addict is addicted to drugs. They are not about to listen to reason. But here's the thing: I have known quite a few Christians who are a$$-holes. They spout off with bible rhetoric, but at the same time, they don't know the proper way to treat people. They're a bunch of hypocrites. I've also known people of eastern religions and they seem to be much less hypocritical than bible bangers (and terrorists comprise just a minute fraction). In the end, ones religion does not make the person. As some have already mentioned here, we must take responsibility for ouselves and stop passing off our mistakes & bad luck as "God's will." If we were to all sit around and do nothing in life while waiting for "God's will," we would still be back living in caves.

__________________

Don't Chrome them; polish them

I've known my share of a**holes from non-Christian religions. I don't see any reason to think that any particular religion has a monopoly on hypocrisy. Witness all the mindless support of Tibetan Buddhism which, when it was in power in Tibet, amounted to little more than a brutal form of feudalism.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I can only comment on the people I have personally known - and after 63 years, they are many.

__________________

Don't Chrome them; polish them

well. how can you be so sure that you have "god's" word? (of course, you can't be. because it's just some words written by some men several thousand years ago. you could just as easily believe in joseph smith, as mormons do. they're quite certain that's the word of god. {trust me, they're just as misguided as you and the muslims and the buddhists and all the rest})

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

this is the basis of every cult; destroy individuality, and make people subserviant. its been working (on the not so bright people) for hundreds of years. it even works now, be it scientologists or twelve-steppers (bill wilson was a member of the oxford group/ moral rearmament, who were great admirers of another cult, national socialism of 1930's, 1940's germany.)


free yourself!

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Believers...+1
Atheists.....-1

According to the article posted:
The issue with the ads in Des Moines was with the word God, said Elizabeth Prusetti, chief development officer for the bus agency.

"We have never allowed that word in our advertising, promoting a religion," she said. "We've never used the word God in any advertising to maintain some autonomy. We've had churches advertise, but it's been for their church and not a belief."

The agency has since decided its advertising policy was outdated, and is changing it to better align with other policies regarding civil rights, the state's obscenity and profanity laws and the diversity of the community, said Brad Miller, the agency's general manager. Prusetti said agency did not specifically address religion in its old advertising policy and that the decision not to have the word God appear in ads has just been continued on over the years. Prusetti said the word God will be allowed under the new advertising policy.

__________________
1985 300D Turbo
"Evolution is God's way of giving upgrades" Francis Collins

Of course it can answer any question you want. The math book I wrote can prove 4+4=44 too. OF course, nothing else out there will prove it but it can prove itself.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Having self in between one and god is not a question of authority. If it were simply that one had to relinquish authority to god, then the man who "fell" would be picked back up once he did. Matt SD300 would no longer be on earth, as he has demonstrated having relinquished authority to god. Men who believed and gave over authority were not even returned to heaven/eden after Jesus's death.
It is not so simple. One has to erase selfness to return to heaven/eden/oneness with god. No matter how much free will is turned over to god, one cannot go anywhere.

__________________
1984 300TD