Cash for Clunkers, our Government playing games

[kknudson]

I just read that when (IF) the dealers get repaid for their 3500 to 4500 interest free loan to our government.

Thay have to Pay Taxes on IT.

The government givith and the government taketh away !!!

[Wodnek]

Originally Posted by kknudson

I just read that when (IF) the dealers get repaid for their 3500 to 4500 interest free loan to our government.

Thay have to Pay Taxes on IT.

The government givith and the government taketh away !!!

It is income, why shouldn't the dealers have to pay taxes on it?

[aklim]

Originally Posted by Wodnek

It is income, why shouldn't the dealers have to pay taxes on it?

I don' know. Why shouldn't the govt have to pay interest for the loan?

[kknudson]

Originally Posted by Wodnek

It is income, why shouldn't the dealers have to pay taxes on it?

It isn't income, it was a discount provided by the government. Or so advertised by the Poli's.

Shouldn't the first time homebuyers pay taxes on their 8k ?

I think that the first time homebuyers, and those given mortgage forgiveness should pay taxes on their rebate (the poli's removed that penalty). IMHO

How about at least taking away the 250k home sale exemption, at least reduce it by an amount equal to the rebate or forgiveness.

So government spin, you didn't get a 3500 or 4500 $ rebate, it was only 2 or 3 k !!

[connerm]

cash for clunker buyers also pay tax on the $4500 credit. It isn't free money or a discount. IRS went to a lot of trouble to explain this to the car dealers. I am doubtful many dealers actually explained it to car buyers.

Watch the youtube videos of really nice cars being destroyed for the program. Sickening waste.

Cash for refrigerators coming soon. Really.

[BodhiBenz1987]

I can't say I feel all that sorry for the dealers. It's annoying -- yet typical -- that the government is fumbling the ball and it's hurting the dealers, who understandably made their plans according to what they were promised. But at the same time, nobody at any of these dealerships did a damn thing to earn this random boost from the taxpayers of America. Nothing. A lot of them ran around kicking up their heels and bragging that they were "selling cars like candy" (real quote). So I'm not crying for them now. The smart dealerships realized they weren't going to get paid by the government and stopped participating in the program before it ended.

I don't think anybody -- the car buyers, the dealers, and most of all, the carmakers -- deserves one cent of this "stimulus" in the first place. Since they were promised it and made decisions based on that promise, they ought to get it. But quite frankly, it's appalling that they were offered it in the first place.

One of the discouraging things about this recession is that the people and businesses who made the worst mistakes are being offered the most lush bailout efforts so they can continue to make those mistakes. We're doing everything we can to try to make sure banks, automakers, etc., and consumers, can all continue to operate on an entirely backwards principles.

[Matt L]

It is 3500 or 4500 that the government is paying, instead of having the customer pay it.

Had the customer paid it, would the dealer have to pay taxes on it?

[450slcguy]

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

The smart dealerships realized they weren't going to get paid by the government and stopped participating in the program before it ended.

Of course their gonna get paid, I've seen nothing indicating they won't. It's just gonna take a little more time than first thought due to the overwhelming volume. The program is within budget and the money has been allocated. If the dealers met the regulations, they'll get paid.

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

I don't think anybody -- the car buyers, the dealers, and most of all, the carmakers -- deserves one cent of this "stimulus" in the first place. Since they were promised it and made decisions based on that promise, they ought to get it. But quite frankly, it's appalling that they were offered it in the first place...

It's not all about the car company's, it's mostly about the many, many millions of people employed directly and indirectly in the auto industry.

It's very easy to demonize, whine, and cry about government actions taken when your job, world, and income hasn't suffered or collapsed. Probably makes you feel downright righteous that your opinions are the right course of actions. Put yourself on the other side of the fence and you'll see how fast opinions and outlooks can change. Have a high paying job and employer paid health benefits? The reality of what can happen sinks in immediatly when your job is lost and possibly not ever regained.

If you'd would have preferred to see the economy fall into depression without any intervention by the government, then perhaps you have a point. But without the stimulus and bailout packages, this country and much of the world economy would have collapsed. We were, and argueably still are, that close. We're not out of the woods yet, but things are starting to look up.

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

One of the discouraging things about this recession is that the people and businesses who made the worst mistakes are being offered the most lush bailout efforts so they can continue to make those mistakes. We're doing everything we can to try to make sure banks, automakers, etc., and consumers, can all continue to operate on an entirely backwards principles.

I'm pissed off too by the irresponsible banks and companies. But letting them fail would have been more disastrous for this country. Just image what would have happened if the FDIC had to cover the trillions of dollars in accounts they insure. That would make the bank bailouts pale in comparison to the liabilities of failed banks insured FDIC accounts. Do you understand the consequences of what another "rush on banks" would have done to the American economy and people? I don't think you're seeing the whole picture, but rather focusing on your indignation of the government.

The vast majority of the bailouts are not grants, they are "loans" and they will be paid back with interest. This is a fact that so often gets overlooked in the zeal to demonize and politicalize the governments action.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

One of the discouraging things about this recession is that the people and businesses who made the worst mistakes are being offered the most lush bailout efforts so they can continue to make those mistakes. We're doing everything we can to try to make sure banks, automakers, etc., and consumers, can all continue to operate on an entirely backwards principles.

I'd suggest you read the federal reserve act.... According to that, the taxpayers are on the hook for any screw ups that the major banks make. The fed would then print money and loan it to the 'people' for them to give to the banks that were failing... The banks have no responsibility to pay it back, they can just keep doing what they're doing...
The banks that are now in the media for screwing up have in fact been doing this for over 30 years if not more..... This problem is not new.... Who benefits from these actions??
How about the Rockefeller family who own the largest stake in the federal reserve bank?? How about the banks that get free money that you have to pay the loans for??
The Rockefeller control a stake in these failing banks as well, making sure that screwups get put in charge so that they can keep lining their pockets... It costs them NOTHING to write a check to give a loan to the 'people' so they can bail out said banks.... Mean time, they assure a legally required source of income...
And before anyone tells me I"m wrong, they had better read the ENTIRE Federal Reserve Act and look up every word in a legal dictionary.... Just like I did to come to this conclusion....

[MTUpower]

Originally Posted by amosfella

I'd suggest you read the federal reserve act.... According to that...

And the Lord knows the gov listens and always obeys it's own rules and guidelines.... It's never screwed anyone over, right?

[cessna5354]

Was this not a means to get clunkers ( inefficient, gas burners) off the road. That is why this money came out of the EPA's budget. I am far from a greenie, but that was guise to get the money available.

It should have been advertised as a gov't payout with tax implications. It was not and never was this hinted as such.

Personally I firmly believe that the Gov't missed the mark by not making it avail on only US companies. Toyota & Honda had 4 out top 5 cars purchased.

I traded in a Chrysler T&C, with 115K miles BB @ $ 3,800 tops, needed batt, tires, window sw. A/C repair, maybe frt rotors. Goodbye for a Ford Escape. Clean deal but nothing to write home about.

I will not be pleased if Barry sends me a 1099 after the fact......

[dynalow]

http://www.cars.gov/files/official-information/law.pdf


(h) Exclusion of Vouchers From Income(1)

FOR PURPOSES OF ALL FEDERAL AND STATE PROGRAMS- A voucher issued under this program or any payment made for such a voucher pursuant to subsection (a)(3) shall not be regarded as income and shall not be regarded as a resource for the month of receipt of the voucher and the following 12 months, for purposes of determining the eligibility of the recipient of the voucher (or the recipient's spouse or other family or household members) for benefits or assistance, or the amount or extent of benefits or assistance, under any Federal or State program.

(2) FOR PURPOSES OF TAXATION- A voucher issued under the program or any payment made for such a voucher pursuant to subsection (a)(3) shall not be considered as gross income of the purchaser of a vehicle for purposes of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.
(i)

http://www.cars.gov/faq

Is the credit subject to being taxed as income to the consumers that participate in the program?

NO. The CARS Act expressly provides that the credit is not income for the consumer.

[cessna5354]

I am reading this reply thinking this guy needs to be my accountant, BUT crap, He is an accountant, and he is in my backyard.

Call sometime or email, 609 7o3- eight 9 eight 9

Thanks as I have been looking with out definitive sucess.

BTW do you have any clammers, harvesters, or field owner as customers ???

[450slcguy]

Originally Posted by cessna5354

Personally I firmly believe that the Gov't missed the mark by not making it avail on only US companies. Toyota & Honda had 4 out top 5 cars purchased.

All the Honda and Toyota vehicles bought were manufactured in the USA and built by US labor.

I wish I had a dime for every so called "US" company that has no manufacturing in the US.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by MTUpower

And the Lord knows the gov listens and always obeys it's own rules and guidelines.... It's never screwed anyone over, right?

I never said they don't break their own rules, but they seem to keep this one religiously.....