Sounds interesting. Clinton and Obama conservatives? Yes, in many ways, but mainly simply centrist. That is the beauty of them.

Most folks are in the center.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

He starts with the rise of conservative thinkers and shows how their ideas are executed by Clinton and Obama. Centrism was a tenet of earlier conservatives. Centrism and reform. I thought some of it was a stretch, or not quite what the original conservatives meant, but the difference between conservatives now and then is surprising. It's kind of like seeing someone again after a long time. Then you see differences you don't see when you're with a person over time.
The old school conservatism is the kind I consider intelligent conservatism. New conservatism is lacking the intellectual substance of the old. That's why I like David Brooks and George Will (the latter a little less). They are the only voices of the old (and I think true) conservatives.

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1984 300TD

watching it really piqued my interested in politics again. i've told people for years that this country would fall over itself to vote for a centrist, old school, intellectual conservative/republican, one that courts and protects the middle class. for some reason conservatives today court the upper class while using the lowest class to shout their idiotic slogans. democrats do not court the votes of the bong rippin' hippies on the super far left because it would be political suicide and would turn off the centrists. why then do the republicans insist on courting the inbred race baiting tea baggers to prove how american they are? i can't vote for a republican for a few reasons, one of which is that i can't align myself with the glen becks of the world. more george will, less glen beck, seems very simple.

edit: Tannenhaus is also right in stating that liberals/democrats have been suffering without intellectual conservatives to sharpen their arguments against. you don't have to actually do any political foot work when your only opponents are so weird and out there that no one is going to be curious as to what they offer politically.

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1985 300D - 1984 Euro 280E AMG Clone (SOLD) - 1978 280CE (SOLD) - 1983 300D (SOLD) - 1981 300D (SOLD)

I just read your Kurt Vonnegut quote on the bottom. Hah! It is truly scary!

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Speaking of, I thought it was funny and true how he called them the same as hippies in the 60s. Counter culture anti-establishmentism. Hit the nail right on the head. I bet some of those tea baggers would have their head explode hearing that.

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1984 300TD

Clinton was very left wing but had to centralize to get anything done, especially after the Contract with America. Obama was the highest scoring liberal senator in the Congress, he is pure socialist. He is worse than Carter, who was just stupid.

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MB-less

Emmerich, would you be so kind to explain to me why Clinton was very left and why you think President Obama is a socialist.

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1979 Black on Black, 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE (vanished by the hands of a girlfriend), 1992 300CE (Rescue).

So .....you are saying that you think Obama is REAL stupid?


Good lord.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Yeah. He was the only president of the modern era to try and cut spending during a recession. Idiot.

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1984 300TD

I've wondered recently if the traditional conservative view is at a dead end.

Conservative values hold wide appeal when exploitation can move in an unhindered manner. With the growth of population and the ever increasing needs of larger social infra-structure, conservative values are finding shrinking appeal among the general public.

Then there is the disastrous results of modern conservatives: Look at what the 8 years of the Bush administration have brought upon this country. That administration served little but to reverse the previous, highly prosperous era.

The series of catastrophes of the last few years, including the worst recession in 5 generations are due expressly to the influence of conservatives. This pattern has shown itself conservatism as being a rough analogy of political spousal abuse.

While the Republican party was born in the anti-slavery movement, it has served in recent decades to achieve little besides enslaving the population to serve corporate greed, even at the direct betrayal of the interests of the population.

Add to this the recent racist tendencies that are part of the GOP, and it is hard to see a resurgence of appeal for the GOP.

What new party will rise from these ruins is hard to say. There is something positive about minimal government, but for practical purposes, the idea of smaller government is dead, not only in the USA, but the world over.

It will be interesting to see if the right wingers will form a political ideology that actually has appeal. It will take far more than a black half-wit of party spokesman, which is the only change the GOP has done. Well that, and lie, but that SOP.

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Toyota is a leader only because their drivers block everyone behind them. Oh what a feeling.

What a joke...for every Joseph Stiglitz you democrats count among your ranks you've got two or three ACORN beneficiaries.

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1983 300D

i'm not a democrat.

my point is that behind the democrats you DO find crazy leftist hippies and behind the republicans you DO find crazy conservative wing nuts. it just seems to be the trend for republicans to court that right wing base, rather than quietly tolerate them while they court those of us in the center. when one sides argument is solely "he's a marxist and a muslim" and those of us with half a brain know this to not be true, there isn't much of a debate or discussion left. it's depressing and annoying to me because i'd vote for an intelligent republican that actually had some good ideas and would actually keep me in mind when writing and/or signing legislation. instead they're falling all over each other to sling insults about birth certificates. i don't have time in my life to get into that bat ***** thought process.

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1985 300D - 1984 Euro 280E AMG Clone (SOLD) - 1978 280CE (SOLD) - 1983 300D (SOLD) - 1981 300D (SOLD)

The post-Reagan republican party seems to have lost it's way. Somehow they allowed themselves to be hijacked by crazies, now they can't get rid of them. They will recover when someone with actual leadership ability comes along and gives them a purpose again. It will take a while for them to weed out the nut jobs and get back to their core message, but it will probably happen within 10 years (or sooner if the democrats really screw up somehow).

I thought Tannenhaus brought up an interesting point when he talked about how William F Buckley and some other conservative philosophers supported Joseph McCarthy (which Buckley later regretted). The reason Buckley et al liked him was his appeal to the populist middle america type, which conservatives had trouble tapping.








I'm afraid Hattie's got it right (except the libertarians being a good party). Both parties are corrupt. If the Democrats were any better than Republicans regarding corporate support, we'd already have regulations to prevent a recurrence of recent economic problems. I'd think that fight will be harder than health care reform.

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1984 300TD

I don't have much love for any politcal party. I simply view it as which evil do you want in charge.

Personaly I rather have an evil that leaves me alone and does little.


The Statesmen of old that put the country's well being before theirs are dead. Now we have professional politicians, who enrich themselves.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
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