As I've said before, we changed our fluorescent fixtures in our building to energy efficient fluorescent fixtures in mid-2007. We saved $4500 so far this year over our 2006 bills and that's with 2 price increases. We paid off the cost of replacement and installation by a contractor in a year and a half. It's all gravy now.

Today we've started the conversion from an oil burner to gas. Our current boiler is a Smith 28A-10 which was installed in Nov. 2000. It was efficient at the time, I think 65% but the process of heating it to steam to heat the warehouse and then converting it back to hot water for the front offices has to bring that efficiency down to the 50% range. We've currently got 7 zones so if any one of those zones calls for heat, the boiler has to fire up even if it's only for that one zone. Last year our heating oil bills averaged $8000/month Dec.-Mar. and and a bit less than that on either side of the "heating season".

The fact that our underground tank is approaching the 20 year mark isn't insignificant.

We've got a Buderus GB142-60 (95% AFUE) wall mount furnace going in for our offices and bathrooms to take advantage of the radiators. The thing is half the size of my 30yo home gas furnace! And in the warehouse we've got 14 Heil 4-position furnaces that are 92.1% efficient replacing the current steam radiator/blower units. The best part is that every unit has its own thermostat and timer which will drastically cut down on the "active" time, ie the current boiler starting up->heating the water->producing steam for the one area that the women are occupying in the packing area.

I'm pretty excited to see the end results and it wouldn't surprise me if the payback is less than 5 years on the entire project.

Next up is looking at some sort of sprayed on insulation for the (flat) roof and finding more info on those solar tubes for lighting during the day.

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

Wow...I'm quite surprised with the level of savings on that electric bill...

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1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."

Yup, payback is how you really get people to invest in "green" upgrades. The current problem is that energy prices are too volatile (and too low) to drive these types of investments on a large scale. So the question is; how do we get energy prices up to a reasonable value and keep them fairly stable?

Start buying oversized SUV's while running your home AC with the windows open in the summer.

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1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."

That's the point, the supply/ demand curve for energy is broken. Energy prices have more to with the value of the dollar and the whims of the suppliers than the actual demand. It's difficult to justify investments if you can't predict the payback.

Well i'm perfectly happy with current energy prices and would be more then happy enough to see that price go down (WHY IS DIESEL STILL MORE EXPENSIVE THE GASOLINE)

But the basic answer would be to reduce the supply so the price will naturally climb.

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1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."

Sometimes it's not really "green", but just energy conscious

I'm not sure if I 100% agree with switching to CCFLs (simply because of toxicity), but, hopefully, even better lighting technology will be around the corner, LEDs and such.

These really do pay for themselves.

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1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008
1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009
262,715 and counting

I don't know how that would be done unless we want to fix energy prices at a specific level. An import duty could do that if it was adjustable, but I hate to see a "tax" solution.

PG&E offered my uncle a free lighting upgrade for the shops at the orchard. It took him about 6 months to get them out there to install the lights, but last week they came and installed them, Free! they replaced the existing sodium lights with flourecent. Its a great improvment since the old lights have been there since the 80s, and they took forever to warm up. We'll see how it efects the power bill, but its suppose to be a pretty good savings.

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I was shocked with the lights. After all, we already had fluorescent lights to begin with and they're generally thought of as efficient. However many of the fixtures were 15-20 years old. That energy savings is strictly from the switch to high efficiency guts and ballasts, many of the fixtures themselves are still in use (some 8 footers were replaced by two 4 footers). The kWH comparison is impressive, although dollars speak more clearly and are easier to remember.

Trust me C_N, if there's a more efficient option that's cost effective we'll be exploring it!

We're waiting on a electric motor audit for replacing the motors on our packaging and mixing equipment.

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

I think he is going to be pleasantly surprised!

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

What types of motors do you use now?

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1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."

Energy costs are a big expense for any business.

The grocery store I used to work at spent $100k-$120k a year on electricity. The owner was always looking for things to cut that bill down.


I have to say the largest power bill I have ever heard of was from a RE investment group I was talking to. They owned a large mall that was all electric heat! I don't know who thought that was a good idea. The bill was $1m a month. They sold the property to some other sucker, it really needs to be converted to gas.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

My residential oil-to-gas boiler conversion would have had a 6-7 year payback, and that's with oil going up past $4. I'm still staying with oil for now.

In your case it makes prefectly good sense due to the space you're managing. What's heating the tap water?

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Currently the only gas unit in the building, a gas HWH. Which is in the boiler room on the opposite end of the building. Now that we'll had the gas lines running throughout I'd like to go with an on-demand one right near the bathrooms. Really no sense in heating the water 24 hrs. a day for an 8 hr. work day. Especially when peak usage is that 10 minute span at breaks, before they go to lunch and before they leave for the day. Definitely less hot water with everyone washing their hands than probably one decent length shower at home.

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)