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  #1  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:16 PM
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reading about saul alinsky U no this guy

http://www.itvs.org/democraticpromise/alinsky.html


i started reading about this DUDE and upped my meds so i would not choke someone

hillary did a paper on this guy because she admired him

and Os fundamentally changing America is his book as i read

this is what some of you are aligning yourselves with

who has read about this guy

i have to be careful unlike some, the post police watch every word i type

i sure would like to speak my mind about this guy and what influence he has in our government -- jz
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:25 PM
Craig
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I'm not familiar with him; he sounds like your garden variety mid-20th century social/labor activist. There were plenty of others in the same camp in the 50/60s. Hillary is about the right age to have paid attention to him, I'm closer to the "chicago seven" generation. What's the point?
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:52 PM
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If all one knows about a person is from reading webblogs and op eds, is that truly knowledge and informed opinion or is it more akin to being a wooden dummy with a ventriloquist's hand up your butt?
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:53 PM
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His point is that he listens to Rush Limbaugh (not a bad thing for most people, but others take his "lessons" too far). The original poster sounds a bit paranoid.

Saul Alinsky was a Chicago activist who preached/wrote about how to cause unrest, and then reap the benefits of that unrest - usually for the "good" of those causing the unrest. Rush has been saying that Obama's playbook is exactly the same as Alinsky's Rules for Radicals; divide and conquer, essentially. I haven't read the book, but I get the gist from minor research.
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by POS View Post
Saul Alinsky was a Chicago activist who preached/wrote about how to cause unrest, and then reap the benefits of that unrest - usually for the "good" of those causing the unrest.
And that differs from what Rush does exactly how?
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:02 PM
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”There Is Only The Fight”
An Analysis of the Alinsky Model

"people who deserve special appreciation: Mr. Alinsky for providing a topic, sharing his time, and offering me a job……"

http://www.hillaryclintonquarterly.com/documents/HillaryClintonThesis.pdf

Alinsky's Rules

RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)

RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the "real" issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)

RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)

RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)

RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)

RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)

RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:07 PM
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Read the above "Rules" and tell me that Karl Rove and other political tacticians don't come to mind . . . perhaps the theory is universal in US politics.
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:08 PM
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I'll give hillary a B+ (it would have been a B, but she spells better than jz).

I'll give the rules a A-, they sound like they would be pretty effective (but he could have been a little more aggressive).
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjzjz View Post
http://www.itvs.org/democraticpromise/alinsky.html


i started reading about this DUDE and upped my meds so i would not choke someone

hillary did a paper on this guy because she admired him

and Os fundamentally changing America is his book as i read

this is what some of you are aligning yourselves with

who has read about this guy

i have to be careful unlike some, the post police watch every word i type

i sure would like to speak my mind about this guy and what influence he has in our government -- jz
License, registration, and proof of membership in the Rush Limbaugh Dittohead Club, please -- pc
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:35 PM
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"Dittohead Club"?

Spelling? Shouldn't that word have "ck" in it?

Just because you're responding to jz, doesn't mean you can't spell correctly.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:11 PM
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Ya Ya

Good work Johnjzjz. These naysayers make noise, but there posts are all pretty empty. That's why they attack your spelling. Not much else to say. Pretty much like the current Democrats on the Hill. Also very empty, yet trying to run the USA in the ditch. Unbelievable! And the country is broke and they want to spend more. Rush does occasionally mention Alinsky, and in one of the posts the clown compared Rush to Alinsky. I really enjoyed Rush today, a couple of the calls were hilarious..
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by junqueyardjim View Post
Good work Johnjzjz. These naysayers make noise, but there posts are all pretty empty. That's why they attack your spelling. Not much else to say. Pretty much like the current Democrats on the Hill. Also very empty, yet trying to run the USA in the ditch. Unbelievable! And the country is broke and they want to spend more. Rush does occasionally mention Alinsky, and in one of the posts the clown compared Rush to Alinsky. I really enjoyed Rush today, a couple of the calls were hilarious..
Yup, that was an outstanding example of investigative journalism. I hear that he's close to proving the LBJ once had an overdue library book, film at 11.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junqueyardjim View Post
Good work Johnjzjz. These naysayers make noise, but there posts are all pretty empty.
Would that be Rule # 5?

Quote:
That's why they attack your spelling. Not much else to say. Pretty much like the current Democrats on the Hill. Also very empty, yet trying to run the USA in the ditch.
Combo of #5 & 9 7 10?

Quote:
Unbelievable! And the country is broke and they want to spend more.
11?

Quote:
Rush does occasionally mention Alinsky, and in one of the posts the clown compared Rush to Alinsky. I really enjoyed Rush today, a couple of the calls were hilarious..
3
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:47 PM
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With a little practice, they might get better. Maybe someone should send a copy of these rules to the tea-baggers, they could also use some help.

BTW, who said "what is radical in one generation is mainstream in the next"? This actually seems like a good example.
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:50 PM
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I thought I'd seen the twits name recently. His organizations feature quite a lot in this article (probably not PC enough for dems to read) about the degeneration of life in Chicago and Obama's roots as a "community activist".

http://www.city-journal.org/2010/20_1_chicago-crime.html

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