Home schooling and evolution - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #46 03-09-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

All true. HOWEVER, this is like dealing with muslims and OBL. IF OBL were doing things in the name of the religion that are not part of the religion, isn't it up to the so called moderate muslims who are supposedly the majority to stand up and denounce him? If not, what are we to think? Besides that Islam IS, in fact, in favor of such activities? Same thing here. Where were the good majority to stand up to these actions at the time? So yes, if you called yourself "XYZ" and said you were doing it in the name of the deity of "XYZ" and it was untrue, where was the rest of "XYZ" to dispute that?

I can't speak for "XYZ", nor other supposedly "Christian" groups, or denominations, However, The Presbyterian Church in America ( my denomination) has a track record of expelling ministers who stray from what they professed to believe at the time of their ordination, or whose actions fall outside of biblical morality. ( In Presbyterian churches, the Ministers are members of a Presbytery; not any local church--the Presbyteries police their own members.)

OldPokey · #47 03-09-2010, 11:48 AM

I'm offended that someone would think there is only one way to approach life, the universe and everything. I demand that all home schooling books include chapters on the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

MS Fowler · #48 03-09-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldPokey

I'm offended that someone would think there is only one way to approach life, the universe and everything. I demand that all home schooling books include chapters on the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I understand the sarcasm, but on what basis would you demand what other people do? Why is it any of your concern?

davidmash · #49 03-09-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Again, we disagree on what qualifies as "Christian". Just because someone calls them self a Chrisitan, doesn't mean they actually are. Jesus said that MANY would call " Lord, Lord" to Him at the judgment, and He would say, " I never knew you". Regardless of whether you accept the Bible, or not, the story still makes the point.
Is a Christian one who "says" he is, or one who "acts" as one?

Does the Vatican count? As I recall, they did a number on the jews with the Nazis and even helped quite a few of the bastards escape to S America.

kerry · #50 03-09-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Does the Vatican count? As I recall, they did a number on the jews with the Nazis and even helped quite a few of the bastards escape to S America.

Even supplied a future Pope to the Hitler Youth.

MS Fowler · #51 03-10-2010, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Does the Vatican count? As I recall, they did a number on the jews with the Nazis and even helped quite a few of the bastards escape to S America.

You don't ask a member of a church that came out of the Reformation if the RC church counts as "Christian".

aklim · #52 03-10-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Even supplied a future Pope to the Hitler Youth.

And a past pope that helps the priests molest kids and covers it up via the "Catholic Shuffle".

732002 · #53 03-10-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I can't speak for "XYZ", nor other supposedly "Christian" groups, or denominations, However, The Presbyterian Church in America ( my denomination) has a track record of expelling ministers who stray from what they professed to believe at the time of their ordination, or whose actions fall outside of biblical morality. ( In Presbyterian churches, the Ministers are members of a Presbytery; not any local church--the Presbyteries police their own members.)

That is how is was in the religion of my parents.

As a youth I would wonder if the ministers ever questioned their beliefs and if they did they were trapped because their employer required them to believe a certain way.

Most beliefs are based on social and economic realities not logic.

aklim · #54 03-10-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 732002

As a youth I would wonder if the ministers ever questioned their beliefs

and if they did they were trapped because their employer required them to believe a certain way.

Most beliefs are based on social and economic realities not logic.

Won't indoctrination take over in those circumstances?

Would it be though? That is like saying my wife has to believe everything her employer says it does. You don't have to believe everything your boss says. You have to execute the directives. As my employee, if you publicly disagree with me, of course I will fire you. That said, there is nothing to say that you cannot have your personal doubts or even air them in house. Besides, if it went too far, they could always quit.

That I can agree with.

Fitz · #55 03-10-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

You don't ask a member of a church that came out of the Reformation if the RC church counts as "Christian".

Aren't Presbyterians the ones who believe they are "saved" because God has chosen them to be saved...that is...Presbyterian? How nice for you!

Apparently God was less hopeful concerning my eternal future and chose for me to be a Catholic instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Does the Vatican count? As I recall, they did a number on the jews with the Nazis and even helped quite a few of the bastards escape to S America.

What "number" did the Vatican do on the Jews with the Nazis? I'd like to see some proof of Vatican support for the holocaust if you have any.

Not all of the Nazis escaped to South America. Some were brought to the US where they were valued for their knowledge of advanced weapons technology and their intelligence networks within Communist controlled Europe. The Rat Line was an OSS/CIA asset and the Catholic priests involved in its operation were mostly motivated by anti-Communism rather than anti-semitism.

davidmash · #56 03-10-2010, 12:15 PM

Pope asks for forgiveness

The Nazis who came to the US had scientific data valuble to the US. Those who had not such use were ferried off to S AM and other places. Some had the assistance of the Vatican.

Pope Pius XII says nothing

Vatican Under ground railroad

Quote:

Yet there is one important Holocaust-related matter where I think Pius clearly did act at variance with traditional Catholic teaching about justice and how the ends must never justify the means. I am referring to Pius's role in assisting Fascist war criminals to escape to South America. By and large, Pius's advocates have played the ostrich when it comes to the Vatican's "ratline." Denying Pius's complicity in the church's smuggling of Nazi and Croatian Fascists out of Europe flies in the face of incontrovertible evidence. Uki Goni's The Real Odessa (Granta Books, 2002, second edition) provides the conclusive documentation. Using previously unavailable material from the Public Record Office in England and from the U.S. National Archives and Record Administration, Goni clearly demonstrates that Pius knew that ecclesiastical institutions in Rome were hiding war criminals. "The British dossiers...show that the pope secretly pleaded with Washington and London on behalf of notorious criminals and Nazi collaborators," Goni writes. Why did Pius help these murderers escape justice? Because he was convinced they would carry on the fight against communism elsewhere. It turns out that Pope Pius was one of the first cold-war warriors.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

-Martin Niemöller

samiam44 · #57 03-10-2010, 12:28 PM

Maybe this thread is side-tracked a bit..

I think the good part of home-schooling is you get to make choices to teach your kids. Different kids respond to different teaching styles which the school system doesn't cater too. For younger kids- I'd say it's a bunch of fun. I know many adults 30-50 which were home schooled- whom are excellent and not social miss-fits.

It's only down side I see is it places lots of responsibilty on the parents. Young earth creationists? Young earth theory is some cool reading... explored it a bit myself.

Michael

aklim · #58 03-10-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam44

I think the good part of home-schooling is you get to make choices to teach your kids. Different kids respond to different teaching styles which the school system doesn't cater too.

It's only down side I see is it places lots of responsibilty on the parents.

To a point, yes. You still have to pass the exams, do you not? Sure, you can change the teaching styles but if you try teach them the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth, etc, etc, you might not see them pass the exams well and move on in life.

That is the part that would scare me the most.

Fitz · #59 03-10-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam44

Maybe this thread is side-tracked a bit..

No, it was anti-Christian from the beginning.

David, I asked for proof of Vatican support for the holocaust and you haven't provided any.

Also from The Jewish Virtual Library...

Quote:

What is the case against Pius XII? In brief, that as head of one of the most powerful moral forces on earth he committed an unspeakable sin of omission by not issuing a formal statement condemning the Nazis' genocidal slaughter of the Jews, and that his silence was motivated by reasons considered in modern times as base: political exigency, economic interests, and personal ambition.

What is the case for him? That in relation to the insane behavior of the Nazis, from overlords to self-styled cogs like Eichmann, he did everything humanly possible to save lives and alleviate suffering among the Jews; that a formal statement would have provoked the Nazis to brutal retaliation, and would substantially have thwarted further Catholic action on behalf of Jews. To the Sacred College of Cardinals Pius XII wrote on June 2, 1943: "Every word that We addressed to the responsible authorities and every one of Our public declarations had to be seriously weighed and considered in the interest of the persecuted themselves in order not to make their situation unwittingly even more difficult and unbearable."1

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef2.html

davidmash · #60 03-10-2010, 02:06 PM

I believe that by saying nothing one gives at the very least tacit support for what you are not speaking out against.