Don't taze me Bro! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

HuskyMan · #1 05-06-2010, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Being brought up in Asia, I see a lot of difference. First off, over there, they don't believe in mindfawks, aka The science of blame. There is a good swat on the ass for misbehavior. Know what is weird? There are no reports of "My kid ate sugar and acts up". As I have said before, I have twisted mindfawks to say what I want them to say even at 10yo so no, I don't believe in them telling me that the kids are mentally unstable. More likely, the kids are ill disciplined. In asia, the kids growing up were subjected to more discipline and were made to be aware that when you do this, that will happen. Their behavior is better. Here, we label them ADD, ADHD, mentally unstable, try to guide them here and there and they misbehave more. Coincidence?

the process is simple. spare the rod, spoil the child. if the parents took care of business with their young, there would be NO need for the "state" to intervene. but, that's the problem nowadays. the parents give little Johnnie and little Susie the keys to a new BMW 760 V12 to drive to school to show off to their friends. next thing, little Johnnie is involved in a street race and somebody dies as a result.

I had to mow yards and save my money to buy my first car. I treated the car with respect because I had to WORK for it. kids today get the keys to a new Jaguar free gratis.

aklim · #2 05-06-2010, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

the process is simple. spare the rod, spoil the child. if the parents took care of business with their young, there would be NO need for the "state" to intervene.

but, that's the problem nowadays. the parents give little Johnnie and little Susie the keys to a new BMW 760 V12 to drive to school to show off to their friends. next thing, little Johnnie is involved in a street race and somebody dies as a result.

I had to mow yards and save my money to buy my first car. I treated the car with respect because I had to WORK for it. kids today get the keys to a new Jaguar free gratis.

There would be less need since nothing is absolute and they have their bad people too.

Ya think? People have too much of an entitlement mentality these days. Not just the rich kids with the BMW you are talking about. It goes all the way from rich to poor.

When you work for it, you don't screw up as much because you know how hard it is to come by. People these days give their kids whatever they can. Like I said, the rich give BMWs the poor give to their limit and some. Don't think that only the rich kids are ill disciplined because of a lack of consequences. That is the mess we are in today.

WVOtoGO · #3 05-06-2010, 09:00 AM

We need to get back to more discipline and realistic action/reaction thinking in the schools as well.

I’m thinking this could be a good time to drop this into the topic. I got this sent to me some time back. It sure holds true for schools around here.

From 2008 to 2010, things certainly didn’t get any better. Worse, actually.

Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1958 – Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack’s shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2008 – School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1958 – Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2008 – Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Jeffrey won’t be still in class, disrupts other students.
1958 – Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2008 – Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1958 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2008 – Billy’s dad is arrested for child abuse.. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy’s sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy’s mom has affair with psychologist.

Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1958 – Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2008 – Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Pedro fails high school English.
1958 – Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2008 – Pedro’s cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action laws suit against state school system and Pedro’s English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1958 – Ants die.
2008 – ATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny’s Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1958 – In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2008 – Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

t walgamuth · #4 05-06-2010, 09:34 AM

While there is some truth in the above post it is a pretty gross exageration in some of the cases.

I was given corporal punishment as a kid and have spanked pretty much all of my children. But as the years went by we found that we could get the desired results using other means.

We made them set on the brown couch for one minute for each year of age generally.

aklim · #5 05-06-2010, 09:45 AM

1977 or so, I got punished. Now that is a surprise. There are different levels of punishment. Scolding, stand in the corner, do exercises, whapped by teacher, brought to principle's office and scolded, brought to principle's office and be caned, brought up in front of the whole school and be caned and then expulsion. Once expelled, it is much harder to get into a good school. I have gone all the way to caning in the office. Thought I'd best behave before I got any further.

WVOtoGO · #6 05-06-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

While there is some truth in the above post it is a pretty gross exageration in some of the cases.

I was given corporal punishment as a kid and have spanked pretty much all of my children. But as the years went by we found that we could get the desired results using other means.

We made them set on the brown couch for one minute for each year of age generally.

I’ll agree.
It was more of a food for thought thing with some humorous entertainment value thrown in.
But, you must admit there is a lot of truth/fact behind its point.

We've never spanked our kids. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t know who’s boss(es) around here. They’ve learned not to act up, or it’s say goodbye to the horses, computer, flying lessons, etc for awhile.

They know there are consequences and act appropriately.

The Swede · #7 05-06-2010, 10:23 AM

White towels don't kill people...

It was fun watching the bag of donuts trying to catch up with him, lol. Stick it to the man.

Txjake · #8 05-06-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Swede

White towels don't kill people...

It was fun watching the bag of donuts trying to catch up with him, lol. Stick it to the man.

yeah, power to the people, right on.....

cmac2012 · #9 05-06-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

While there is some truth in the above post it is a pretty gross exageration in some of the cases.

I was given corporal punishment as a kid and have spanked pretty much all of my children. But as the years went by we found that we could get the desired results using other means.

We made them set on the brown couch for one minute for each year of age generally.

Not the BROWN COUCH!!

t walgamuth · #10 05-06-2010, 08:33 PM

Go ahead and laugh, it worked.

Later we did the mandatory grounding etc.

When they crashed the car or put gasoline in the tank and ruined the diesel engine I made them pay for a good share of the repairs so that they would remember not to do it again.

When my lovely #2 daughter dropped out of Architecture school and began majoring in getting hammered and dragged home a handful of D's and F's in college we cut off her funding until she re took the classes and got c's or better.

They have all come out pretty well so far.

The Clk Man · #11 05-06-2010, 09:17 PM

I think I would like to be tasored by Shelby on my nuts. c

dynalow · #12 05-06-2010, 09:41 AM

Policy revision.

Just don't jump in with weed in your pocket.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20100506_Phillies_to_take_bigger_role_in_security_matters.html

"Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey examined video of the arrest and determined that the officer acted within department guidelines, which allow officers to use a Taser on fleeing suspects."

Zeus · #13 05-06-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

We need to get back to more discipline and realistic action/reaction thinking in the schools as well.

I’m thinking this could be a good time to drop this into the topic. I got this sent to me some time back. It sure holds true for schools around here.

From 2008 to 2010, things certainly didn’t get any better. Worse, actually.

Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1958 – Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack’s shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2008 – School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1958 – Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2008 – Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Jeffrey won’t be still in class, disrupts other students.
1958 – Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2008 – Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1958 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2008 – Billy’s dad is arrested for child abuse.. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy’s sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy’s mom has affair with psychologist.

Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1958 – Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2008 – Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Pedro fails high school English.
1958 – Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2008 – Pedro’s cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action laws suit against state school system and Pedro’s English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1958 – Ants die.
2008 – ATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny’s Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1958 – In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2008 – Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

X2, other than the belt-whipping which I think has been appropriately removed from most parents' arsenal of punishment.

I was going to post the same thing in essence.

WVO - We need to get society back on track in general. We have absolutely lost the plot (DJ will know the expression

) .

We, USA perhaps more than Canada, now live in a state of constant fear. Our vigilance and paranoia has increased, and our tolerance has decreased in kind.

This taser incident is a sad example of this. It is absolutely overkill. Delivering enough electricty to a teenager to instantly immobilize him is warranted for a kid running onto a baseball field? To use WVO's timelines -

Kid runs on baseball field.
1958 - Is quickly caught by staff/security (if they existed) since they are generally fit and can capture a teen. He gets a slightly rough hauling off the field and some tough words, probably a smack, situation done.
2008 - Kid could be a terrorist. He could have a bomb. Zero tolerance. Security and staff, already primed, react instantly. Overweight, as many people are now becoming, staff cannot run anywhere near fast enough to perform their duty as a security force to catch the kid, he is shot with a taser and instantly falls to the ground. He is handcuffed and hauled off.

I have seen many 'tough love' posts on this forum and it would seem we are surrounded by saints who never sinned or made bad choices as teenagers. Since we all know teenagers are bastions of logic and emotional stability.

If we teach intolerance, it will be taught back to us in spades, in time.

This kid made a stupid decision,yes. However, his biggest mistake was being a teenager in a age where being a teenager is increasingly not allowed.

aklim · #14 05-06-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

X2, other than the belt-whipping which I think has been appropriately removed from most parents' arsenal of punishment.

Overweight, as many people are now becoming, staff cannot run anywhere near fast enough to perform their duty as a security force to catch the kid, he is shot with a taser and instantly falls to the ground. He is handcuffed and hauled off.

I have seen many 'tough love' posts on this forum and it would seem we are surrounded by saints who never sinned or made bad choices as teenagers.

Does it break bones? Hasn't broken my bones.

I see. So it is my duty to tackle you and risk injury to both me and you because you are an idiot and do stupid things. Is that the long and short of your thesis?

MAYBE, just MAYBE, you forgot the 3rd option. Those who have sinned, made bad choices and those who have paid for those and learned from it the hard way and now are better off. If my parents had been soft with me and let me do as I please, I wouldn't even have made it past high school and might now be in the morgue or worse.

lutzTD · #15 05-07-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Does it break bones? Hasn't broken my bones.

I see. So it is my duty to tackle you and risk injury to both me and you because you are an idiot and do stupid things. Is that the long and short of your thesis?

MAYBE, just MAYBE, you forgot the 3rd option. Those who have sinned, made bad choices and those who have paid for those and learned from it the hard way and now are better off. If my parents had been soft with me and let me do as I please, I wouldn't even have made it past high school and might now be in the morgue or worse.

I was thinking the same thing, how do you stop the guy...
1) stop chasing him and let him tire himself out, wheres the fun in that, players are open to injury by a nut case
2) tackle him, hurt him and yourself, open yourself to liability, players dont need that
3) use sticky or slippery goo thats out, ruins the field
4) shoot him with a beanbag
5) shoot him with the t-shirt gun, that would be fun.
6) rope him like a steer
7) use a net gun
8) pepper, again ruins the field
9) taser, only hurts the perp

seems like taser is the only available choice if he doesnt want to stop on his own.......

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