W210 E55- Mod options?

[Geeky1]

I'm looking at replacing my STI with my dad's 02 E55. This particular E55 feels abnormally healthy-to the tune of 20-40 extra horses as measured by my Highly Calibrated, Extremely Sensitive Posterior Dynamometer ()-compared to other NA 55s I've driven, but I'd like more out of it. I've given a few E39 M5 owners a hell of a shock at stoplights with the STI, and I'd like to at least equal that performance with the AMG. Stock it's close but not quite there.

It also gives up some handling capability to a stock STI (it's kinda hard not to, it weighs about 600lbs more than the Subaru) and I'd like to mitigate some of that, too. Motor Trend's road test of a 2000 resulted in a 0-60 time of 4.8s, a 1/4 time of 13.3 @ 107, 0.85gs around their skidpad and about 66mph through their slalom. I'd like to take it more to <=4.5 seconds to 60, somewhere in the 12s at >=110 in the 1/4 and 0.95+ around the skidpad with a slalom speed north of 70mph.

With all that in mind, I've been researching my options for a while, but I'm having a hard time finding any real concrete numbers. What I'm hoping to do (depending on how much money I make off selling the STI) is throw the Kleemann headers and flash at it, along with a resonator delete/x-pipe and either straight pipe it or go with a high flow muffler of some kind, and slap on either a set of KW coilovers or H&R springs with Koni FSD dampers, the larger H&R anti-roll bars, possibly polyurethane front lower control arm bushings, and Dunlop Direzza D1 Sport * Specs on rims that don't weigh as much as the AMG Monoblocks do. Do you guys think that would be sufficient to get the car to where I'd like it to be?

Also, does anyone have any idea how much more power I'd see by putting the Kleemann cams on it in addition to everything else? I'm trying to avoid their supercharger kit because a. it adds a bunch of weight to the front of the car, which will hurt handling, b., it costs about as much as everything else combined, and c., I don't like blower whine. So yeah... I'd like to do everything else before resorting to that.

Is there anyone doing custom dyno tunes for these cars now, or is the Kleemann flash (which appears to just be a one-size-fits-all thing) my only option? And lastly, can I cram anything wider than 255 fronts/275 rears on this thing? It doesn't look like there's much room in there for anything wider...

Thanks.

[Zeus]

Kevin - I won't move the post unless you want me to - but you should really post this in the Performance Paddock. Some good advice in that forum, and you're getting pertty specific here (which is good, but this is a general chat forum).

That said, I don't think there is really anything significant you can do to a W210 E55 for extra substantial performance. Anything decent would cost several thousand. At that point, you are better off selling it and buying a W211 E55, which will give you enough performance for a lifetime. That is also my plan, you see.

If you are set on modding your Dad's - head on over to the PP and start digging. Good luck!

[iwrock]

short of swapping a 55k motor or supercharging the W210, theres not really a whole lot of bang for the buck mods on the W210.


As for making it handle better, your working with a luxury barge (not sedan lol), and your fairly limited in terms of what you can do. I do know they make aftermarket swaybars, bushings, and coilovers for the W210, but like I said before, its a barge compared to an STi.


With that said, anything is possible.



Thats a friends 03 E55k being put through its paces on the track. While it may not be a lotus, or a Porsche, it is still a beast!

[Zeus]

Ah man! That pic is awesome Justin...! That is where it belongs (this side of the Atlantic from the Autobahn, that is).

[iwrock]

Heres some more eye candy.








Yeah, we may not have the autobahn, but we make up for it.

[iwrock]

I think his E55k has worked harder than 90% of the E55s in existence.


And man oh man, it pulls harder than any other E55(k) I have driven.

[Zeus]

Sweet. You're killing me. Must...not...phone...MB dealer...yet...must......stop.

He's not rolling on stock...any other mods? It looks lowered.

[Hatterasguy]

Its hard to do better than MB, and more so AMG. There engineers work really hard to get everything set up properly.


For what your going to spend on it to get a little bit more power, you would be better off selling it for the blown car if you want to go faster.

[DieselPaul]

I too am in this quandary, an E55K is way out of my range and I may go E420 rather than E55, but it seems the fact of the matter is it is a REALLY well engineered N/A motor. So short of F/I there aren't giant gains to be had as one would expect with a say a Cobb package on an STi. And if you have to pay someone else to build your F/I setup you probably have enough money to buy a W211 to start with. However if you REALLY love the W210 E55 go with it. I understand modding a car that may not seem worth it because of the love of the car. See signature, I made a Pontiac Fiero fast... why!? Well it too an extra liter and F/I to make it fast. Renntech sold a Supercharger kit for the W210 but I think it was like $13,995 for the kit.

[okyoureabeast]

Instead of performance mods, how about some tastefully done mods on appearance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dLFQZAPFDc

I can appreciate some interesting light mods, small things done to the interior that add a touch of "different" to your vehicle.

There is a user on this board named Sev who has added some chrome trim around the circles of the instrument cluster. I almost wanted to do that.

I've also seen an outside temperature mod as well as using an "economy" gauge as a boost gauge.

It's all up to you. There's a little makeup that adds a nice hug of unique and then there is a LOT of make up. It's your decision and I can tell you regardless of what these guys say I can dig a riced out ride on the principle of, "I did this myself and I like it."

[Geeky1]

Zeus, I wasn't sure what forum to post it in; if you think it'd be better off in the performance paddock, please go ahead and move it.

So... The 211.
I pondered going that route; it's possible to pick up an early one as more-or-less a straight trade for the STI. And for what I'd spend on the 210 I could pick up a 211 and have a faster car with less work.

But there are a number of reasons to avoid the 211:

• Unless the E's Airmatic system is completely different from the one in the W220 S, it's unreliable, flaky, and hideously expensive to fix. If memory serves the S air pump (which burns out) is about $400, the control valve (which leaks) is about $400 and the front struts (which crack at the top plate, leak and then drop the car on its nose) are about $1200 each. And all of it will fail, like clockwork, about every 80-100k.
• The 211 gained something like 200-400lbs over the 210, which does it no favors in the handling department. The Airmatic may help (when it works) but physics is still physics and at the end of the day the car is still porky.
• I was a service adviser for a MB/BMW/VAG shop for 3 years, I saw about 10-15 210s a week. We had just started seeing out-of-warranty W211s and W219s when I left. I never thought I would see the day that a Mercedes with 50,000 miles on it was leaking oil out of both valve cover gaskets like a Volkswagen Passat, but, thanks to the 211 and 219, I did. Based on that experience, I don't think they're built as well as the 210s, and they're most certainly not as easy to do DIY maintenance/repairs on.
• They don't do much for me. I haven't yet driven an AMG 211 (I haven't been able to get the keys to the E63 that replaced the E55 away from my parents yet...) but I've driven a bunch of E320s, E350s, and E500s. They're fine cars, but there's a subjective, intangible something about them; they don't feel like Mercedes anymore to me, they feel like generic luxury cars. And if I wanted that I'd buy a piece of -er, Toyot-er, Imitation Merc-er, Lexus.

As far as this goes...

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Its hard to do better than MB, and more so AMG. There engineers work really hard to get everything set up properly.

Whoa. Hold on.

Any production car-whether it's a STI, an E55, a Yugo, a 911, a Suburban, whatever-is an exercise in compromise. It's a balancing act between cost, safety, assembly quality, quality of materials, and achieving certain performance criteria with respect to everything from cargo capacity to fuel economy to acceleration, amongst a whole HOST of other things.

Mercedes' engineers are indeed very capable. They're also constrained by a budget and by a need to build a car that will sell in quantity. Very few people would buy an E55 with coilovers on it if it was set up that way from the factory for the same reason that nobody in their right mind bought the original Z51 suspension package on the C4 Corvettes-namely, because most normal people (yes, even Corvette drivers) LIKE their kidneys and don't want to beat them up that badly.

When you don't have to contend with some of those criteria-chief amongst them the need to build a car that is marketable to a relatively large demographic, and the need to build something that is relatively cost-competitive with comparable models from other manufacturers-you can most assuredly outdo the OEM, whether the OEM is Chevy, Mercedes, Ferrari, or anything in between. Companies like RennTech, RUF, Gemballa, Lingenfelter, Brabus, Kleemann, Yenko and countless others built an entire industry doing just that. To say that "you can't do any better than the factory has already done" is, to be frankly honest, absolutely ridiculous. If that were the case RennTech wouldn't have 210 E55s running in the 11s, let alone some guy in Europe pulling 6000+rpms and quarter mile times that would utterly shred a C6 Z06 out of a diesel 124.

You're right that modifying cars-particularly cars for which very little market for performance parts (such as Mercedes) exists-is rarely, if ever, cost-effective. But don't make the mistake of assuming that you can't build something that suits your needs and desires better than the manufacturer. In almost all cases, you can.

Originally Posted by DieselPaul

I too am in this quandary, an E55K is way out of my range and I may go E420 rather than E55, but it seems the fact of the matter is it is a REALLY well engineered N/A motor. So short of F/I there aren't giant gains to be had as one would expect with a say a Cobb package on an STi. And if you have to pay someone else to build your F/I setup you probably have enough money to buy a W211 to start with. However if you REALLY love the W210 E55 go with it. I understand modding a car that may not seem worth it because of the love of the car. See signature, I made a Pontiac Fiero fast... why!? Well it too an extra liter and F/I to make it fast. Renntech sold a Supercharger kit for the W210 but I think it was like $13,995 for the kit.

Yeah, I'm not expecting to see massive gains out of it, but there's definitely more to be had out of it without going to F/I (and if you stick with NA you'll still come in under the cost of a 211). A really well designed NA engine is good for about 100HP per liter, although that starts to drop off as displacement goes up. I wouldn't expect to be able to get more than about 475-500 out of it NA, and frankly I'd be shocked if it did anything over about 450ish. But that ought to be enough power to get it to do what I want it to in a straight line, but I was hoping to have someone confirm those numbers.

Edit:

Originally Posted by iwrock

As for making it handle better, your working with a luxury barge (not sedan lol), and your fairly limited in terms of what you can do. I do know they make aftermarket swaybars, bushings, and coilovers for the W210, but like I said before, its a barge compared to an STi.

Yup. It is. And there's no escaping that. It's never going to have the turn-in response or the transitional response of the STI, it's just not. 3800lbs doesn't change direction as quickly as 3300 does. But I'm thinking that perhaps some suspension work would be enough to get the overall grip up to about the same level as the STI's, and get the car to at least run through a slalom fast enough to shove around an E39 M5.

[Hatterasguy]

Well I prefer to keep cars stock, I don't have the R&D budget of Daimler Benz, I also don't have well paid engineers on staff like AMG does. Slapping on some aftermarket parts may gain you a slight amount of power, but where are you gaining it? Also at what expense?


High end German cars are not like other cars, your going to spend $10k chasing a few extra HP on that car.


You can build whatever you want, you can drop that car off at Rentech with a blank check and make it a rocket ship. But why spend the money, just buy a faster one to start with.

I guess I just don't see the point in modding cars.

[iwrock]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Sweet. You're killing me. Must...not...phone...MB dealer...yet...must......stop.

He's not rolling on stock...any other mods? It looks lowered.

lowered on adjustable links (still running airmatic!), and running some 20" forged wheels. He is running some nice Bridgestones, and that is it. Drive train is stock, and other than having links to lower the suspension, its just W211 AMG under there!



Do IT! You know you want it.

[iwrock]

Kevin, if you want a very nice luxury sedan with 350 horsepower, go with the E55. Some coilovers, swaybars, poly bushings, adjustable suspension links, lighter wheels, good tires, and a good alignment will make a W210 E55 handle better than an M5... (my opinion)

As long as you have the driving skills to push it to the limit. Having a fast car that can handle is fine and dandy, but without good driving skills, its a waste. Not to mention having a good safe place to put the modifications to use.

Do you regularly track/autocross your STi?

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by iwrock

lowered on adjustable links (still running airmatic!), and running some 20" forged wheels. He is running some nice Bridgestones, and that is it. Drive train is stock, and other than having links to lower the suspension, its just W211 AMG under there!



Do IT! You know you want it.

Ah, nice.

Do it? Oh I will...I will.