Gov.Logic, NTSB investigating the gas line explosion in CA - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kknudson · #1 09-13-2010, 06:38 PM

OK I don't understand, except to help show the perfect logic of the government and it's entities.

WHY is the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in charge of investigating the gas line explosion in CA ???

PaulC · #2 09-13-2010, 06:49 PM

Pipeline accident investigation has been part of their chartered responsibilities since the 1960's.

cmac2012 · #3 09-13-2010, 11:27 PM

That happened about 15 miles north of me. Pretty intense. I gather that most folks there had no idea there was a NG pipeline underground.

Palangi · #4 09-13-2010, 11:48 PM

We own a couple of acres out in the country. There is an easement noted in the paperwork for El Paso Natural Gas Co.

No idea if a pipeline actually crosses the property, or where it might be located. Nothing on the survey map. No pipeline warning signs in the area. Nobody from the company has been there in the last 27 years (that I know of anyway).

I think I might just want to check into this a bit further.

cmac2012 · #5 09-14-2010, 02:51 AM

At a meeting, yesterday I think, with PG & E, someone asked about seeing a map of where the pipelines are and the spokeslady said that wasn't possible as the exact location is a security issue.

Apparently someone in the audience let out with a loud expletive at that point. However, I can see their point. I mean it's probably a long shot that a terrorist would try to dig down to pipeline and attach some kind of detonator but who knows, it is sort of a ready made bomb.

One guy just bought a $850K house, one that was burnt to the foundation, and was saying that nowhere in the disclosures or anywhere else was there mention that it was sitting virtually atop a time bomb.

kknudson · #6 09-14-2010, 05:16 AM

OK my error

it is NSTB not NTSB

so it is National Safety and Transportion Board.
NOT National Transportation Safety Board.

Still quite an explosion, anda disaster for those in the area.

I didn't think any ran through residential neighborhoods, I see signs for them around here, usually along main roads.

I guess when you figure the number of water lines here in Chicago that are pushing 100 years old, there are some old gas lines too.

Palangi · #7 09-14-2010, 10:12 PM

The good news:
Here is a gooberment website which claims to have zoomable maps of all gas pipelines:

https://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov/searchp/newlogin.asp?search=Pub

The bad news:
Currently not working. Probably has been overwhelmed, or possibly taken down.

Might be worth watching over the next few days to see if it comes back up.....

Jim B. · #8 09-15-2010, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

We own a couple of acres out in the country. There is an easement noted in the paperwork for El Paso Natural Gas Co.

No idea if a pipeline actually crosses the property, or where it might be located. Nothing on the survey map. No pipeline warning signs in the area. Nobody from the company has been there in the last 27 years (that I know of anyway).

I think I might just want to check into this a bit further.

Look at the actual deed to the property and see if there is an easement for this; it would be part of the property description if there was.

Also, go to the County recorder and run a grantor/grantee title search in the County recorders office.

An easier way than that if your deed was recorded not too long ago, it would have been recorded at the request of the Title company that handled the escrow.

Go call them and ask to look at the the title insurance report (it's reference/escrow number is usually noted on the top of the actual recorded someplace) and ask them if they would do a "run to date" or property profile on the land, a title company in its title plant has a daily updated duplicate of the county records.

How do I know they can do that?

Because I use to be one of "THEY".

Jim B. · #9 09-15-2010, 06:43 AM

New Rule: Every time a company is found negligent and causes the death of a human being, the CEO will be tried for murder and if found guilty, executed.

If corporations want the rights of individuals, per US Supreme Court's recent decision, they should be held accountable as individuals.

Pooka · #10 09-15-2010, 01:53 PM

Jim,

Something like that is in place. Just not formally.

Before the Bellingham, WA, fire pipeline supervisors would just laugh off the fact that running a pipeline is a very stressful job since they knew no matter what took place they would not be held responsible.

Then two managers from Olympic Pipeline got two years in prison for their part in the Bellingham incident and everything changed. After that managers were obsessed with safety and could not stress it enough. The Pipeline Controllers would be hearded into meeting where they were told how important safety was to which they would just react with a 'Are you just now catching on to this?' sort of attitude.

True story: A manager went into a control room and demanded an Operator perform a specific operation. This, in and of itself, is a violation of Federal Law, but the Operator just pointed out that what the manager wanted violated one of Newton's Laws of Motion.

The Manager replied that he did not know who this Newton guy was; all he wanted was the operation he had come up with started.

So the Operator threw him out of the control room. There was a big dust-up but the manager wound up being transferred to Africa and the Controller, who recently retired, just kept on running the pipelines.

Pooka · #11 09-15-2010, 02:04 PM

There is no one better than the Feds DOT to investigate this accident. I have worked with these people for many years and they know what they are doing.

I have seen several people lie to them and try and trick them. I have never seen anyone get away with it. These people are just too smart when it comes to finding the cause.

I can't always say the same about state agencies since some of the people I have run into there are in political payback jobs. They make life rough for the real pros they are working with and most people try to just work around them by giving them a lot of paperwork to do.

The Feds love paperwork since the records are how you piece together something as complicated as a leak. It is not uncommon for pipeline managers to threaten pipeline Operators with new equipment by saying, "We will catch you now!" In every case I have ever been involved in the new equipment proved the Operator was telling the truth about an accident and it was equipment that malfunctioned.

This is bad for the management since they are the ones responsible for buying and maintaining the equipment.

It will be interesting to see how this disaster took place, but it will likely be a year or so before we know anything.