Popular Mechanics Chevy Volt Range Tests - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 01-07-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Absolutely. But what will it sort out to be in the end? Will we be better off or worse off? We have to look at an overall picture. A gain in one end (fuel use) isn't a gain if we take it in the shorts every day.

The US will eventually figure out how to use less energy than it produces, it won't be a choice. The only thing they can control is how it happens and how much of a disruption it will create. I assume they will continue to do nothing until someone else decides for them, then the folks with the least resource will "take it in the shorts." You and I will be fine, we will just complane and pay whatever it takes. Some people will actually get hurt if "market forces" are allowed to make these decisions.

aklim · #17 01-07-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

The US will eventually figure out how to use less energy than it produces, it won't be a choice. The only thing they can control is how it happens and how much of a disruption it will create.

I assume they will continue to do nothing until someone else decides for them, then the folks with the least resource will "take it in the shorts."

You and I will be fine, we will just complane and pay whatever it takes. Some people will actually get hurt if "market forces" are allowed to make these decisions.

Or it can start digging up what they have and sell it and use it.

Better than some arbitrary idiot at the top doing it because it lines his pocketbook in some sense.

I don't bet on such things. I am good today. Tomorrow might be different. Things change. If I cannot adapt to the market force, the hurt will induce me to make the necessary changes. When I am no longer able to make the change, I will be stepped on and squished and it will be the end for me. As it should be.

Hatterasguy · #18 01-07-2011, 03:18 PM

It would be perfect for my mom since she averages about 25 miles a day or less.

A 240 plug isn't a big deal, that's easy to set up. Its a dryer or electric stove plug.

pawoSD · #19 01-07-2011, 03:36 PM

Its a scary thought what it would do to our pittance of an electrical grid....if everyone came home and plugged in their 30A 240Volt car charger thats a LOT of juice....just one neighborhood could be sucking close to an extra megawatt of power....that is a LOT. Our grid would melt, explode, and fall to the ground. A good test would be to have everyone in a neighborhood be doing what they do normally, but then go power up their stove/oven/dryer all at once....and see what happens.

Considering many blackouts have occurred just from everyone running a 15-30A A/C unit.....imagine if EVERYone had a car charging at that rate!

aklim · #20 01-07-2011, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

It would be perfect for my mom since she averages about 25 miles a day or less.

A 240 plug isn't a big deal, that's easy to set up. Its a dryer or electric stove plug.

Average. Is that like one day 50 the next day none and come up with an average of 25? As I have asked, what happens when you die on the road and have to walk home? 25 miles isn't worth it when you have to charge it up for 12 hrs. If it would go at least 300 miles and the turn around time is an hour, maybe. To be a legit alternative to gas or diesel, it shouldn't have a longer turn around time than 10 mins which is the fueling time.

Mike D · #21 01-07-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

As I have asked, what happens when you die on the road and have to walk home?

You change your name to Lazarus?

pawoSD · #22 01-07-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I don't know. Would you feel comfortable with a car that has a range of 30 mpg and then shuts down? Would you care to try a real world test. Zero out your trip meter and when it hits 30, stop where you are and walk home. Around here, AAA doesn't charge your battery. This isn't US Cellular where you can go to a shop and do a battery swap and have a charged battery for your phone.

Parts cost or actual cost? Is that just parts or does he consider labor and effort to design the system, chase around for parts, etc, etc? When I want to do a calculation on how much maintenance a car will cost me, I include my work at mechanic hours in the calculation.

Also there would be a lot more weight, right?

Sure as long as it had an accurate gauge. I rarely drive more than 30 miles at once.....plus, if you throw a small generator into the mix for times you need to go further.....then you're set....

This would be a vehicle for driving in the city, not long trips obviously. That'd cover about 85% of my family's driving. My wife only drives about 13 miles a day....sometimes less. It'd work great for her too. I only have to fill the 300E every 3 weeks.....it gets horrid mpg because she drives 1.1 miles in the morning to her first location, then 4.5 more miles to the second, then about 7 miles home.....so it averages about 17-19mpg.....still cheap in reality....less than $2.50 a day....

aklim · #23 01-07-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Sure as long as it had an accurate gauge. I rarely drive more than 30 miles at once.....plus, if you throw a small generator into the mix for times you need to go further.....then you're set....

This would be a vehicle for driving in the city, not long trips obviously. That'd cover about 85% of my family's driving. My wife only drives about 13 miles a day....sometimes less. It'd work great for her too. I only have to fill the 300E every 3 weeks.....it gets horrid mpg because she drives 1.1 miles in the morning to her first location, then 4.5 more miles to the second, then about 7 miles home.....so it averages about 17-19mpg.....still cheap in reality....less than $2.50 a day....

Someone like her might be able to us a Priuis better.

retmil46 · #24 01-07-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Its a scary thought what it would do to our pittance of an electrical grid....if everyone came home and plugged in their 30A 240Volt car charger thats a LOT of juice....just one neighborhood could be sucking close to an extra megawatt of power....that is a LOT. Our grid would melt, explode, and fall to the ground. A good test would be to have everyone in a neighborhood be doing what they do normally, but then go power up their stove/oven/dryer all at once....and see what happens.

Considering many blackouts have occurred just from everyone running a 15-30A A/C unit.....imagine if EVERYone had a car charging at that rate!

There's the other rub - all these wonderful studies on plug-in hybrids and electrics ASSUMES that everyone will wait until they're home and plug in overnight, when electrical demand is lowest.

Wrong answer. Toyota did a study with several Prius's configured as plug-in hybrids, to see how owners would actually operate them. Surprise - the owners were plugging them in at every opportunity and every time of day. Even if they only made a half-mile run to the corner grocery and used less than 5 % of their range, they were immediately plugging it back in once home. Run to the mall 5 miles away, still have 4 times or better as much charge as they need to get home - wait until they get home to plug in? Nope - if there was a public charging station available, immediately slap it on the charger. Then do the 5 miles back home, and plug it in AGAIN.

Gimme a break. With all the people in this country that can't even properly operate or maintain a "conventional" vehicle, you wanna turn them loose these? I'll lay odds that some idiot, despite all the built-in safeties, even finds a way to electrocute themselves when plugging the bloody thing in. Honda was so afraid of people tampering with the battery pack on the first gen Insights they put a warning label on the lid that read "Danger - High Voltage - You Will Be Killed".

Fulcrum525 · #25 01-07-2011, 05:43 PM

Alright here's one (And why I feel that purely electric vehicles are nonsense)

Lets say you live about 20-30 miles from work which is located in a city (Around the maximum distance for said purely electric) Alright you get to the parking lot or garage....now what? Yes you can plug it in but I don't think the lot/garage would be too happy paying for your electricity out of their pockets. And that's IF you can find a socket.

Perhaps in the new future some enterprising fellow will build or equip a garage to specifically cater to electrics like the Volt. The problem then becomes how much more will people be willing to pay for these facilities and will the vehicle still make economic sense?

In my case there is no way an electric would make sense. I get too many random calls during any given week and would run out of juice in no time at all.

pawoSD · #26 01-07-2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

There's the other rub - all these wonderful studies on plug-in hybrids and electrics ASSUMES that everyone will wait until they're home and plug in overnight, when electrical demand is lowest.

Wrong answer. Toyota did a study with several Prius's configured as plug-in hybrids, to see how owners would actually operate them. Surprise - the owners were plugging them in at every opportunity and every time of day. Even if they only made a half-mile run to the corner grocery and used less than 5 % of their range, they were immediately plugging it back in once home. Run to the mall 5 miles away, still have 4 times or better as much charge as they need to get home - wait until they get home to plug in? Nope - if there was a public charging station available, immediately slap it on the charger. Then do the 5 miles back home, and plug it in AGAIN.

Gimme a break. With all the people in this country that can't even properly operate or maintain a "conventional" vehicle, you wanna turn them loose these? I'll lay odds that some idiot, despite all the built-in safeties, even finds a way to electrocute themselves when plugging the bloody thing in. Honda was so afraid of people tampering with the battery pack on the first gen Insights they put a warning label on the lid that read "Danger - High Voltage - You Will Be Killed".

That is not as big of a deal, as the car's charger computer can determine what level and time it will allow charging. 5-10% would likely result in it just sitting there and not charging. Modern laptops/netbooks do this also, to conserve battery life by reducing charge cycles.

Even if it did charge, it wouldn't take long for it to top off, so the load on the grid is brief.

pawoSD · #27 01-07-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Someone like her might be able to us a Priuis better.

Over both of our dead bodies.

I'll buy a smart car or an electric smart car long before I drive a Prius.

Her 300E has been paid for since the day I got it....monthly maintenance is hardly anything....insurance is super cheap.....so the monthly operating/ownership costs including all factors (even fuel) is barely $125.....a prius would be much much much more.

retmil46 · #28 01-07-2011, 06:32 PM

Speaking of Smart cars -

Halfway between Nashville and Knoxville last weekend, on I-40, I passed a Smart car tooling along in the RH lane at about 65 mph. No nearby towns or exits.

It had Florida plates on it!

I thought to myself "Guy, you're either incredibly brave, incredibly stupid, or both if you actually drove THAT go-cart all the way from Florida!"

TheDon · #29 01-07-2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

Speaking of Smart cars -

Halfway between Nashville and Knoxville last weekend, on I-40, I passed a Smart car tooling along in the RH lane at about 65 mph. No nearby towns or exits.

It had Florida plates on it!

I thought to myself "Guy, you're either incredibly brave, incredibly stupid, or both if you actually drove THAT go-cart all the way from Florida!"

probably a snow bird that tows it behind the RV

okyoureabeast · #30 01-07-2011, 08:44 PM

I wouldn't worry about the load on the energy grid. As consumption increases, then the power companies should start gradually increasing the capacity of transformers and power lines. It is what we pay for and shouldn't expect anything less.

Most people would treat their battery powered cars like their laptop. Unfortunately, a battery powered laptop should be run down to zero and then charged back up. Battery charging circuits work only so well.