I have a 2010 Milan hybrid (same chassis as Fusion and Lincoln MKZ).

A hybrid "premium" price wasn't an issue since I bought it when the 2011's were out, after Ford announced the phaseout of Mercury, at the end of 2010 when the dealer wanted them off his lot (he had 6 left). I paid a LOT less than sticker and got a very nicely equipped car.

There are no performance/driveability tradeoffs based on acceleration. Handling, braking, etc is normal as compared to the 2-3 rental gas-powered Fusions I've driven.

I get an "honest" average of between 38-40 mpg in combined driving on regular gas. (miles driven/fuel burned, not what the readout says). My worst mpg was when the engine had to run longer in order to warm up the car to meet the climate control requested temp.

In an mpg-cents per mile comparison, the 38-40 mpg on regular would have a 10% premium over diesel due to the higher cost of diesel. Availability of biodiesel could mitigate that due to tax breaks, but the only biodiesel retailer in the 7th largest city in America closed so that's not an option (how's that for options). Stations near my house are about 50/50 with or without diesel. I can't assume there's a pump there.

In the Ford hybrid implementation acceleration hurts mpg the most. Stop and go is on the battery (unless you have a heavy right foot). Cruise on the highway and it's gas+supplemental battery.

I've changed my driving to avoid the congested and jam-prone freeways (abysmal sprawl in San Antonio) and get to work quicker on less gas over surface streets.

But if I was doing a lot of highway driving - I might consider a new diesel. I believe the strength of the hybrid is in the regenerative braking and the computer controlled shut-off while stopped, not on highway cruising.

I agree with Yak that owning a hybrid has made me more active in the driving process to maximize fuel efficiency. However, I'm no hypermiler but as I drive the Insight more I've picked up on techniques that will bring out the car's potential in increasing mpg.

Since getting my Insight, I only fill up when near empty to get a better idea of how much gas I used. And with each gas recipt I will write down avegae mpg for that tank and total distance driven, plus any notes that might explain increase or decrease in mpg. I mainly use my car to commute to work and much of my driving is in the city with numerous lights and involves stops and deceleration/acceleration typical of city driving. From my computer reading, I average ~53mpg on each fill-up. My calculations of dividing miles driven by gallons consumed pretty matches the computer reading. Keep in mind this is only city driving. When I do take the freeway, it bumps my mpg average higher. My fill-up ended with an avergae of 55.4mpg. But when I did the calculations, the car's computer seemed 1.7mpg higher. I don't know if that had anything to do with the insanely high freeway mpg I got that bumped the avergae up.

Anyhow, about the Prius. I've read that the Prius can achieve 50-60 mpg. But it seems people I've taked to say they only get mid to high 40s.

I'd agree with that. Prius is a great car too, but for someone who likes to actually drive a car, the old Insights are actually great fun.

1800 pounds or so, 2 seater, very... raw driving experience, kind of like a nicer handling, lighter 240D IMO. And obviously very economical.

They didn't sell that well because Americans tend to want at least a 4 seater... Toyota was smart in that they kept the "Camry" philosophy with the Prius, in that it's a practical car with a lot of cargo room and a softer ride.

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1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

My Pruis gets 42MPG City and 52 highway.No matter how efficiently i drive in the city,42MPG is the max.

I remeber the Porsche adds during the late 70's early 80's. They claimed the 928 or 924 only needed 16 hp to maintain highways speeds in the US. So, 55 mph or so. So, I could see a hybrid being able to cruise on the highway with a smaller motor efficiently, and use the electric motor to add power for acceleration to merge or pass.
Also, GM and Chrysler used the cylinder shut off to increase highway mpg on several cars. I think they still do.
Tom

The reality is that a hybrid carries a huge initial and huge recycling energy cost that is hidden. The most efficient vehicle remains a high MPG small diesel as there are no extensive electronics and batteries to deal with.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

I agree, most reading I have done states that the overall environmental cost of a Hybrid vs a regular car is negative.
You save gas while in use, but the energy creating and disposing of the various specialty item negates any savings and then some.

While I drive a gas vehicle, I personally feel diesel is the way to go. They (mostly from my readings here) provide better gas mileage, seem to last much longer, are just as clean and biodiesel is much less destructive overall.
It does not disrupt food stocks and is not as energy energy negative, ethanol from what I've read takes about 7 units of energy to produce 10. Ethanol IMHO is a government boondogle here.

I have also read some information that refining oil to diesel requires less energy than gas.

I do feel though that Hybrids are a good interim solution until a better solution is found.

I think pure electrics (even the volt) are also very good interim solutions, many people can do much of their general driving within it's limited range.
Although I feel they need to do better, I figure 75ish miles to a charge is about right. Despite GMs claims of 40 miles to a charge, I am reading the real number is in the mid 30s, which is BARE minimum IMHO.

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

My wife drives a 2001 Prius. We bought it in 2006 with 53K miles. It now has 110K. We spent $13K to buy the car, which is admittedly high for a subcompact its age at the time, but mileage was obviously quite low.

But beyond that, the cost of operation has been outstanding.

In 54K miles I have done the following maintenance to the car:
New tires, summer and winter; Change coolant (engine and inverter); Change trans fluid; Change plugs (tho they probably didn't need it); a new accessory battery (a little gel type unit); and a new serp belt.

Most recently I replaced some light bulbs for the climate controls, changed the PCV valve at 100K and installed a new gasket on the fuel filler cap to resolve a check engine light.

That's it beyond oil changes (the car takes three quarts per change).

So the "hidden costs" seem to have remained in hiding for me.

The main traction battery appears to be doing fine. There was a service bulletin on the car to reseal cell terminals to prevent electrolyte leakage, which has the potential to shorten battery life. But my impression from Internet forum chatter is that the batteries are generally holding up quite well.

As a driving experience, the early Prius feels like an economy subcompact. I drove it on a 200-mile round trip last summer and felt pretty beat up by the time it was over. The newer models are a more refined ride on the highway. And they all seem to do better on economy while driving in town. The EPA mileage numbers reflect that.

I had been commuting (40 highway miles one way) in my 300td but it's been semiretired in favor of a car I've found cheaper to operate: a '95 BMW 540i. Miles per gallon is about the same as the diesel, for which fuel comes at a premium these days.

No offense, but you should read more, or at least try different sources.

Most of what I have read is consistent with kknudson's statement. If you have some sources that say otherwise I would truly like to read them, I think its an interesting perspective/argument that transcends the usual gas mileage discussion.

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

You might try http://priuschat.com/forums/ ... it's an active forum that includes some pretty technical content. Obviously, you're going to read from the other side of the coin there.

Here's a recent thread at Prius Chat that might be of interest: http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/90268-do-hybrids-hold-up-over-time-video.html

http://priuschat.com/forums/environmental-discussion/

Their environmental discussion looked promising...but in reality they completely (I mean 100%) ignore this question. The one post I found they immediately called a troll and berated the poster for having a pickup truck. I am genuinely interested in this topic, and it is relevant to my academic studies (thinking enviro marketing paper)...on to digging up scholarly resources

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

When you take the rare earth metals required for the motors and batteries, add in the energy to produce those batteries then to dispose or hopefully recycle the batteries the savings in energy over the life of vehicle is negated.
I agree there are conflicting opinions as to how much, but everything I have read shows most or all + of the savings are lost.

From what I have read Solar is somewhat similiar, although they have gotten much better.
An article I read a few years back showed that over the life of the solar cell, it will only procduce about 80 to 90 % of the energy used to produce them.
I do not agree, but it was written by a scientist from one of the producers of solar cells.

Finally, VOLVO Diesel Hybrid
http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/transportation/volvo-launches-worlds-first-plug-in-diesel-hybrid/135/

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

I'd like a first gen insight as that is a real hybrid car. No frills, no bloat

Never! They make me cringe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOvp69lnZbA

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1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!