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Botnst · #61 02-27-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el presidente

Is FOX covering this??

Point to the Prez.

Service!

kknudson · #62 02-27-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Government jobs have always been fairly low paying, so good benefits are how you attract folks to work.

My wife is a teacher in the lowest socio ecoomic school in Lafayette. She works really hard to try to help kids who often have not much positive in their lives going on.

When she started teaching 35 years ago she made about half to 2/3 what a graduate Architect could make. Now she makes about the same. Another example of how you attract quality folks to a profession where there is not much chance for moving up.

It really honks me off when folks make blanket negative statements about educators.

She comes home in tears many days over the years when she cannot figure out how to reach a kid, or if she knows something nasty is going on at a kids home but she cannot do anything about it.

I in no way intended to disparage all teachers, or all union employees or even all public servants (sic).
My wife was actually trained as a teacher, one of her best friends is a teacher, one was (retired after 25 years) and my neighbor is a teacher.
All are very good at their jobs.

In any industry there are bad apples, in my field (IT) there were more than our share I think.

But somehow those bad apples need to be removed, unions, tenure and public employment make removing them very very difficult.

Local2ED · #63 02-27-2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

Hey. Local2ED...sloooooooowwwwww dooooowwwwwwnnnnn aaaaa litttllllllllleeeee.

Y O U ' R E

T Y P I N G

T O O

F A S T

F O R

Y O U R

O W N

G O O D....

Let's take a look at your sentence and see what you were kneejerk-typing here...

"So has Harley-Davidison let the state of Wisconsin yet? ... Uh, yeah any day now..........any.............day............................now:"

I see the word "let" - did you mean "left" as in "left-leaning" or maybe "left" as in going someplace? I could understand you, pschologically, not wanting to type the word "left" itself...

And, did you mean to continue on or did you just hit too early? Because, I expected some other pithy remark following the ":" after the word "now" in your sentence above.

Please clarify for us that are so unworthy of all knowledge "union-made" and "passed-down" through the years....

BTW: HD hasn't left the state because one of the supposed "tax breaks" the Govenor Walker "gave" big business was the rescission of that $24-Million Democratic tax to save those UNION EMPLOYEES their jobs and to keep a decent company headquartered in Wisconsin.

But, I suppose that when it comes to Union Employees, whether they're Government or Private, they'll eat their own to prove they are more useful for the end product or to prove a point than to stick together all the way around.

That's why I'm glad I work for, and take care of myself and don't rely on some faux-feeling entity to cover my @55 with lame excuses and false promises...all the while getting their cut of my paycheck before, if ever, doing anything for my benefit?

How many decades worth of guilt has to be carried on the new employees' backs about the bad old days and how bad it used to be?

3/4 the current union-ship has no idea what "bad" is or was. Most laws (OSHA/EPA) are standard fair for companies to follow. Whether they're staffed with Union folks or not.

The unions have actually got the government to actually legislate themselves out of a reason to exist.

The only reasons the Unions exist, now, in any business, is to take over the front offices and rape/pillage the business' bank accounts.

Try selling the Union's "crocodile tears" reasons for a locked-out NFL season to us fans this fall...if the Owners have to lock the players out.

I'm tired of being stuck behind county vehicles that crawl along, blocking traffic on 2-lane highways during MY WORKING HOURS 'til about 2PM...then they'll drive the speed-limit while heading back to their "shops" before their "quiting time" around either 3PM or 3:30PM...long before the rest of us "dogs" finish our days. I'm tired to trying to find parking spaces around government buildings, getting parked and having to run to some 2nd or 3rd floor window before 4PM to pay my taxes or traffic fines, because they get to close at that time and head home. BTW, they don't open before 8AM or in some cases, as late as 9AM.

That isn't government serving the people...it's the people HAVING to kiss their annointed working hours. We're not talking about people shoveling cow-crap, running forklifts, building cars or caring for someone else's kids at some supposedly government-inspected/approved daycare center. We're talking about people that don't lift anything heavier than a ream of typing paper and load it into a copy-machine tray, and then ***** about breaking a fingernail or two and then...push paper around the office and ***** about the heating/cooling system.

Yeah, wake me up when I pretend to care about that...I'll let ya' know when...

I thought Harley Davidson was leaving the state because the UNIONS were paid to much?

Now you say because of a tax break they are happily staying

?

When you figure out which is true you can get back to me.

mgburg · #64 02-27-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

I thought Harley Davidson was leaving the state because the UNIONS were paid to much? ... Now you say because of a tax break they are happily staying

? ... When you figure out which is true you can get back to me.

It's not about what you thought.

Read post #21 and then, get back to me...

Local2ED · #65 02-27-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kknudson

Like you I will only argue the points I feel like, the links you want can be found in the Chicago Trib, past month.

Moving to another state, and getting your pension is Fine.
What you continually miss is most public sector pensions payout after n number of years of service, most private pensions (ended long ago) payout at age 65 period.
It doesn't matter if I have 5, 10 or 100 years at the company payout begins at age 65 PERIOD. OK I can take it earlier 62, a few allow 59, but the payout amount is reduced drastically.
And few, very few, include any form of medical coverage, if it does it covers a small portion of the premium.

I personally know SEVERAL people who retired from the sector well before 65yrs. old with a pension and medical, the same medical they had when they were working so I can speak with authority your statement "company payout begins AT 65 PERIOD" is COMPLETELY false.

On your other post you seem to feel it's somehow wrong to put in your time, retire and draw a pension, and go to work in another state. Now you state it's fine, so which one do you want to go with?

Believe me for any public employee who retired with what people feel is an absurd amount of money there's a whole lot more that are making A LOT less that you chose to pretend don't exist

Local2ED · #66 02-27-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

It's not about what you thought.

Read post #21 and then, get back to me...

Or you could just answer the question

RichC · #67 02-27-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

Drivel.

Yep, drivel

Koch sites down.
GP sites down.
Americans for prosperity down. (teabaggers)

articles written at mother jones and daily kos.

Katie Couric will be telling you about it tomorrow.

RichC · #68 02-27-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

That's already happened. Where is bottled water supposed to come from?

There's plenty of privately owned utilities right now. In monopoly situations they are tightly regulated. Profit margin versus government inefficiency usually balances out. My electric bill is private and my water bill is public. Dealing with the electric company is so much easier, and each rate increase is tightly controlled and announced well in advanced. It seems the workers are more responsive to repairs as well.

Why make these declarative statements like this? What good does it do for you to post on a Mercedes forum? You're acting like this hasn't been going on for centuries, and no fair government system can effectively combat it.

Quit blasting noise off the rooftops and start finding solutions.

Solutions found.

Achievement unlocked.

By By Oligarchy !

mgburg · #69 02-27-2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Or you could just answer the question

I did. Read and be enlightened. Or...does someone have to hold the screen in front of you and work your mouse?

RichC · #70 02-27-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

Bullet points, copied, pasted and presented as "absolute fact" by the "chicken-littles" on the left-side of reality.

First off, since you live in Texas, how would you even know what the bill contains? Post the link(s) that are PDFs of the actual bill(s) stating all this...you can't because it's all "THE SKY'S FALLING! THE SKY'S FALLING!" State-Unionists' panic-points.

Tell the lie long and loud and it will become the "true" word!

Problem is...none of that crap is true.

And as much as you believe that there's a KOCH Bros. conspiracy...get over yourselves.

It's a taxpayer revolt that brought Walker to our Govenor's mansion and it's a taxpayer revolt that will bring the State-Union into line with the rest of the taxpaying workers (Union and non-Union) in this state.

Not "O" or his cronies.

Us...the taxpayers of Wisconsin.

Because, without us, there's no money to collect to pay for the "work" they supposedly do.

Do the math.

BRILLIANT !!!

Has nothing to do with corrupt congressmen and corporations.

Love you to, lulz all day.

RichC · #71 02-27-2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

Keep up the good work, Rich. Don't let those union-busting cheeseheads get you down.

Its tooooo much funn, I cant stop....

Local2ED · #72 02-27-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

You can find plenty of examples of overpaid public workers. Bell California of recent... I'm sure he could come up with plenty of Connecticut examples. Are they the rule or the exception? The only hard statistic I could find is the average federal worker retirement age is 58 with average benefits paid of $40,000 annually. That's much better than the private sector, much much better, but these people are also better educated. The problem isn't whether its fair or not, its whether we can afford it as taxpayers.

He wasn't attacking union members in the private sector, merely union members in public positions who think not making any sacrifices is not an option when there's a massive deficit and states have to balance the budget.

Then you start getting personal and on nothing to do with his post, which is a classic troll response. This gives him little inclination to continue any discussion with you. I don't blame him one bit.

You answered my question. Average age YOU found 58yrs old @ $40k per year hardly much, much, better than the private sector at all.
YOU state "union members in public positions not making sacrifices is not an option" Uh, you might want to pay a little more attention as UNION workers in Wisconsin HAVE AGREED to ALL CONCESSIONS EXCEPT the LOSS of COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, think I heard that in the news somewhere.
I'm still waiting for proof of that " 40 something police cheif who retired with $190k per year" although I don't expect to see it

Anyway, thank you for doing the research and proving MY point.

LaRondo · #73 02-27-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

Why make these declarative statements like this? What good does it do for you to post on a Mercedes forum? You're acting like this hasn't been going on for centuries, and no fair government system can effectively combat it.

Quit blasting noise off the rooftops and start finding solutions.

Why not on a Mercedes Forum? It's as good as any other, maybe even better.

Yes, it's been happening time and time again, centuries ago and probably in the centuries to come, yet as a fact this circumstance is completely irrelevant.

What matters is, we're alive now and it happens during our lifetime. In addition to that, it also happens right here in our country.

Reason enough to speak up about it. What's noise for one, maybe a message for another.

MS Fowler · #74 02-27-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Government jobs have always been fairly low paying, so good benefits are how you attract folks to work.

My wife is a teacher in the lowest socio ecoomic school in Lafayette. She works really hard to try to help kids who often have not much positive in their lives going on.

When she started teaching 35 years ago she made about half to 2/3 what a graduate Architect could make. Now she makes about the same. Another example of how you attract quality folks to a profession where there is not much chance for moving up.

It really honks me off when folks make blanket negative statements about educators.

She comes home in tears many days over the years when she cannot figure out how to reach a kid, or if she knows something nasty is going on at a kids home but she cannot do anything about it.

Tom,
One of the problems in any discussion like this is that in the heat of the discussion "all" gets used or implied when " some", or "many" would be more appropriate.
If ALL public sector teachers were worthless, most of would be illiterate. I'd say "that goes without saying", but obviously it needs to be said.

I have 2 friends who are teachers in the County system, plus three more ( including my own wife) who are regular subs. I have watched one of my friend's career quite closely as he was the Band Director for my musician son.

My observations lead me to believe MOST teachers in the public sector are good, or better, while the quality of administrators varies from excellent to " should never be allowed to manage people, ever". OTOH, I do remember vividly a parent-teacher conference with my son's first grade teacher in Baltimore City. In the entire 15 minute conference, the teacher did not speak a single, complete sentence in English. She spoke in fragments, and the subject and verb did not agree. How she ever made it to be a certified teacher baffles me. She is, at least in my experience, the exception.

In the heat of this discussion, I hope no one meant to personally offend your wife. I thank her for her dedication and service.

t walgamuth · #75 02-27-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kknudson

I in no way intended to disparage all teachers, or all union employees or even all public servants (sic).
My wife was actually trained as a teacher, one of her best friends is a teacher, one was (retired after 25 years) and my neighbor is a teacher.
All are very good at their jobs.

In any industry there are bad apples, in my field (IT) there were more than our share I think.

But somehow those bad apples need to be removed, unions, tenure and public employment make removing them very very difficult.

If a teacher is not doing their job an administrator can get rid of them. That is what an administrator is paid the big bucks for. If an administrator complains and whines that the teacher's union won't let him or her fire a lousy teacher you can bet that that administrator is too lazy to do the difficult part of his or her job.