Rise up, and join the revolution. It begins today at noon. - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Local2ED · #46 02-27-2011, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Firstly I don't care what the private sector does, but the taxpayers are strapped so the public sector gets to take the hit. Firefighters and cops around here do better than the private sector people who have to pay there salaries, in some cases a lot better firefighters make a ton of money and all have second jobs.

I am just tired of writing that tax check so some police chief can retire in their late 40's after only 20 years and get full pay,($190k cost of living adjusted BTW) medical, ect for life. Than run out and get another job. As a taxpayer I don't want to pay for that anymore. If it was a private company and I was a shareholder I would complain just the same. I can name 3 cities in CT that are literaly having the economic life sucked out of them by oppressive taxes and corrupt wasteful government full over overpaid workers. Hartford, Bridgeport, and West Haven. West Haven has THREE fire departments, all independent and very highly paid. WTF NYC doesn't even have that, its not sustainable. In the real world if it was a company it would go bankrupt and have to reorganize, I don't see why governments shouldn't be the same. Bridgeport tried to go bankrupt 20 years ago but the courts wouldn't let them. In the mean time residents are getting soaked for $6k a year worth of property taxes on a $150k house, and people are fleeing as fast as they can. People can only be soaked for so much per month so as property taxes go up property values go down.

Don't get my going on CT, CT's economic policy for the last 30 years has been to punish the heck out of companies that either can't move or are to stupid to leave, and suck every cent out of them they can. We destroyed the firearms industry, that's gone, Sikorsky is well on its way to becoming a shell, Electric Boat is stuck so they will get soaked. That's why they are all going to TX or over seas. CT is a brutal state to do business in, unless your a hedge fund or an insurance company. If I had a business that was mobile I would sure has heck get out of this state.

This is nonsense, government doesn't create wealth, jobs and prosperity, it destroys them. Time to change this.

Why do you post some link to the "supposed" 40 yr. old police chief who retired with $190k per year

Their is also no doubt a well paid UNION worker easily pays more than his fair share in taxes.

Seeing how your not capable of remembering your own posts, YOU SAID NOBODY GETS A PENSION ANYMORE I merely corrected you.

Also that should also put to rest the nonsense "they get more than the private sector" they DON"T.

Again Don't aspire to come up to "my " level Let's try and drag them down to "your" level. YOU made a bad choice in life now you feel everybody should to so you can feel better for yourself.

Hatterasguy · #47 02-27-2011, 09:15 AM

Um no, I remember why your on my ignore list you have no desire to debate anything just troll, I won't make the mistake of clicking to see your posts again.

kknudson · #48 02-27-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt L

Stupid? No, stupidity is not being able to even conceive that there might be another valid view.

Sure, they might get pension and I do not. I'll take comfort in the fact that today, my paycheck is more than double what a tenured teacher gets. I can save for my own retirement.

When you're working for the government, it means that your job and job conditions may be affected by the mere whims of any future incoming administration. Thus, unless you're actually stupid, you take steps to prevent it.

If you are making twice a tenured teacher, your are upper class.
Here in IL that number is just under 6 figures, they get full pension at 30 years and can still work (just not as a teacher in IL).
There are over 3k teachers collecting 6+ figure pensions from IL today, that number will double within 5 years and is expected to triple in 10.
Over a 3rd of them are under 60.
AND they get COLA and full medical.

Principals (non union, but) and School District leader get the same concept (with higher $s), they retire at 55 and go to another state run a school or district and collect their pension and salary.

Recent study WSJ, shows that public employees are getting twice the benifets, pension and medical, that the private sector provides.
AND the salaries were not terribly out of line, if you are educated there was NO real difference in pay.

Let's look at some other benefits public employees get.
11 days off / year, most of us get 6 or 7.
Vacations are similiar, public vs private, but public can accumulate unused vacation and sick days unlimited (who in private gets 'sick' days).
Private employees are use it or lose it, and the IRS dings you bad if you accumulate over 120 days. Public employees have no limit.
Now the line worker in the public system, let's not even get into how hard they work.
And between Union and Public employment, get fired yea right!

Local2ED · #49 02-27-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Um no, I remember why your on my ignore list you have no desire to debate anything just troll, I won't make the mistake of clicking to see your posts again.

Just asking you to back up what you say.

Certaintly you can understand a simple request.

Local2ED · #50 02-27-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kknudson

If you are making twice a tenured teacher, your are upper class.
Here in IL that number is just under 6 figures, they get full pension at 30 years and can still work (just not as a teacher in IL).
There are over 3k teachers collecting 6+ figure pensions from IL today, that number will double within 5 years and is expected to triple in 10.
Over a 3rd of them are under 60.
AND they get COLA and full medical.

Principals (non union, but) and School District leader get the same concept (with higher $s), they retire at 55 and go to another state run a school or district and collect their pension and salary.

Recent study WSJ, shows that public employees are getting twice the benifets, pension and medical, that the private sector provides.
AND the salaries were not terribly out of line, if you are educated there was NO real difference in pay.

Let's look at some other benefits public employees get.
11 days off / year, most of us get 6 or 7.
Vacations are similiar, public vs private, but public can accumulate unused vacation and sick days unlimited (who in private gets 'sick' days).
Private employees are use it or lose it, and the IRS dings you bad if you accumulate over 120 days. Public employees have no limit.
Now the line worker in the public system, let's not even get into how hard they work.
And between Union and Public employment, get fired yea right!

DO you have any Illinois public employees wage,benefit, pension links you can provide supporting these claims.
Only something from the STATE please.
Are you saying collecting a pension in Illinois and taking a teaching job in another state is illegal?
Are you advocating that if you retire from the public sector that YOUR life shall be forever dictated by the whims of the taxpayer,ie. "No you can NOT move to another state and seek gainful employment"

Please clarify.

kknudson · #51 02-27-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Are you saying collecting a pension in Illinois and taking a teaching job in another state is illegal?
Are you advocating that if you retire from the public sector that YOUR life shall be forever dictated by the whims of the taxpayer,ie. "No you can NOT move to another state and seek gainful employment"

Please clarify.

Like you I will only argue the points I feel like, the links you want can be found in the Chicago Trib, past month.

Moving to another state, and getting your pension is Fine.
What you continually miss is most public sector pensions payout after n number of years of service, most private pensions (ended long ago) payout at age 65 period.
It doesn't matter if I have 5, 10 or 100 years at the company payout begins at age 65 PERIOD. OK I can take it earlier 62, a few allow 59, but the payout amount is reduced drastically.
And few, very few, include any form of medical coverage, if it does it covers a small portion of the premium.

kknudson · #52 02-27-2011, 04:49 PM

Look at todays Trib.
"The next teachers contract"
To fire a bad teacher that has tenure takes 2 to 5 YEARS. With so much paper work etc many administrators just don't bother. Leaving bad teachers to teach our children.
If you layoff a tenured teacher, it really doesn't mean much they are still paid a full years salary, although some do work as substitutes. This reminds me of the GM/UAW job bank thing.
Any position that is paid based on senority and classes taken vs skills and abilities is screwed up.
All of these are true for the CPS, how many are true pretty much nationwide.

At a private sector job you can get sacked for no real reason, you're out the door bye.
At a private sector job you can get laid off boom, no reason and the company does not have to provide you any severance.
Most do but there is no requirement.

t walgamuth · #53 02-27-2011, 05:20 PM

Government jobs have always been fairly low paying, so good benefits are how you attract folks to work.

My wife is a teacher in the lowest socio ecoomic school in Lafayette. She works really hard to try to help kids who often have not much positive in their lives going on.

When she started teaching 35 years ago she made about half to 2/3 what a graduate Architect could make. Now she makes about the same. Another example of how you attract quality folks to a profession where there is not much chance for moving up.

It really honks me off when folks make blanket negative statements about educators.

She comes home in tears many days over the years when she cannot figure out how to reach a kid, or if she knows something nasty is going on at a kids home but she cannot do anything about it.

RichC · #54 02-27-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

Drivel.

yea, drivel, he he he

9000 will be soon

koch block

oooo, I didnt see that on fox so it must be ddddrivel.

he he he he he

The revolution will not be advertised, he he he

God I love you, lulz all day long.

TylerH860 · #55 02-27-2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Why do you post some link to the "supposed" 40 yr. old police chief who retired with $190k per year

Their is also no doubt a well paid UNION worker easily pays more than his fair share in taxes.

Seeing how your not capable of remembering your own posts, YOU SAID NOBODY GETS A PENSION ANYMORE I merely corrected you.

Also that should also put to rest the nonsense "they get more than the private sector" they DON"T.

Again Don't aspire to come up to "my " level Let's try and drag them down to "your" level. YOU made a bad choice in life now you feel everybody should to so you can feel better for yourself.

You can find plenty of examples of overpaid public workers. Bell California of recent... I'm sure he could come up with plenty of Connecticut examples. Are they the rule or the exception? The only hard statistic I could find is the average federal worker retirement age is 58 with average benefits paid of $40,000 annually. That's much better than the private sector, much much better, but these people are also better educated. The problem isn't whether its fair or not, its whether we can afford it as taxpayers.

He wasn't attacking union members in the private sector, merely union members in public positions who think not making any sacrifices is not an option when there's a massive deficit and states have to balance the budget.

Then you start getting personal and on nothing to do with his post, which is a classic troll response. This gives him little inclination to continue any discussion with you. I don't blame him one bit.

RichC · #56 02-27-2011, 05:49 PM

Pay attention children.

The man behind the curtain wants to buy your water supply.

And sell it back to you in little plastic bottles.

He wants to buy your public sewers.

And make you pay to poop.

He wants to buy your government, O he already did that.

Monsanto called they own your soul now, and you gotta pay them for it...

There is far more to this than pensions, and pay scales..

mgburg · #57 02-27-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

So has Harley-Davidison let the state of Wisconsin yet? ... Uh, yeah any day now..........any.............day............................now

Hey. Local2ED...sloooooooowwwwww dooooowwwwwwnnnnn aaaaa litttllllllllleeeee.

Y O U ' R E

T Y P I N G

T O O

F A S T

F O R

Y O U R

O W N

G O O D....

Let's take a look at your sentence and see what you were kneejerk-typing here...

"So has Harley-Davidison let the state of Wisconsin yet? ... Uh, yeah any day now..........any.............day............................now:"

I see the word "let" - did you mean "left" as in "left-leaning" or maybe "left" as in going someplace? I could understand you, pschologically, not wanting to type the word "left" itself...

And, did you mean to continue on or did you just hit too early? Because, I expected some other pithy remark following the ":" after the word "now" in your sentence above.

Please clarify for us that are so unworthy of all knowledge "union-made" and "passed-down" through the years....

BTW: HD hasn't left the state because one of the supposed "tax breaks" the Govenor Walker "gave" big business was the rescission of that $24-Million Democratic tax to save those UNION EMPLOYEES their jobs and to keep a decent company headquartered in Wisconsin.

But, I suppose that when it comes to Union Employees, whether they're Government or Private, they'll eat their own to prove they are more useful for the end product or to prove a point than to stick together all the way around.

That's why I'm glad I work for, and take care of myself and don't rely on some faux-feeling entity to cover my @55 with lame excuses and false promises...all the while getting their cut of my paycheck before, if ever, doing anything for my benefit?

How many decades worth of guilt has to be carried on the new employees' backs about the bad old days and how bad it used to be?

3/4 the current union-ship has no idea what "bad" is or was. Most laws (OSHA/EPA) are standard fair for companies to follow. Whether they're staffed with Union folks or not.

The unions have actually got the government to actually legislate themselves out of a reason to exist.

The only reasons the Unions exist, now, in any business, is to take over the front offices and rape/pillage the business' bank accounts.

Try selling the Union's "crocodile tears" reasons for a locked-out NFL season to us fans this fall...if the Owners have to lock the players out.

I'm tired of being stuck behind county vehicles that crawl along, blocking traffic on 2-lane highways during MY WORKING HOURS 'til about 2PM...then they'll drive the speed-limit while heading back to their "shops" before their "quiting time" around either 3PM or 3:30PM...long before the rest of us "dogs" finish our days. I'm tired to trying to find parking spaces around government buildings, getting parked and having to run to some 2nd or 3rd floor window before 4PM to pay my taxes or traffic fines, because they get to close at that time and head home. BTW, they don't open before 8AM or in some cases, as late as 9AM.

That isn't government serving the people...it's the people HAVING to kiss their annointed working hours. We're not talking about people shoveling cow-crap, running forklifts, building cars or caring for someone else's kids at some supposedly government-inspected/approved daycare center. We're talking about people that don't lift anything heavier than a ream of typing paper and load it into a copy-machine tray, and then ***** about breaking a fingernail or two and then...push paper around the office and ***** about the heating/cooling system.

Yeah, wake me up when I pretend to care about that...I'll let ya' know when...

TylerH860 · #58 02-27-2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

Pay attention children.

The man behind the curtain wants to buy your water supply.

And sell it back to you in little plastic bottles.

That's already happened. Where is bottled water supposed to come from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

He wants to buy your public sewers.

And make you pay to poop.

There's plenty of privately owned utilities right now. In monopoly situations they are tightly regulated. Profit margin versus government inefficiency usually balances out. My electric bill is private and my water bill is public. Dealing with the electric company is so much easier, and each rate increase is tightly controlled and announced well in advanced. It seems the workers are more responsive to repairs as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

He wants to buy your government, O he already did that.

Monsanto called they own your soul now, and you gotta pay them for it...

There is far more to this than pensions, and pay scales..

Why make these declarative statements like this? What good does it do for you to post on a Mercedes forum? You're acting like this hasn't been going on for centuries, and no fair government system can effectively combat it.

Quit blasting noise off the rooftops and start finding solutions.

mgburg · #59 02-27-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

Its amazing how many people could be convinced that it would be a good thing to shoot themselves in the foot. ... I guess some people want to return to child labor, ... 7 day work weeks, ... 0 vacation days. ... No workmans compensation, ... The list goes on and on. ... --------------------------------------- ... But there is more !!!! ... Nestley wants to buy your towns water supply and sell it back to you in bottles. ... McDonalds wants to educate your children. ... Basically this bill opens the door to sell off all public assets to private corporations. ... Good morning, Taco Bell University, How may I serve you ?? ... ________________________________________________ ... Its time to wake up slaves. ... It aint the government that makes you a slave. ... Its the corporations, that are set up like dictatorships. ... ____________________________________________ ... On second thought, go ahead and listen to the puppet masters. ... Full steam ahead ! ... Lets get this trip to hell over with a little faster. ... Armageddon awaits !!!

Bullet points, copied, pasted and presented as "absolute fact" by the "chicken-littles" on the left-side of reality.

First off, since you live in Texas, how would you even know what the bill contains? Post the link(s) that are PDFs of the actual bill(s) stating all this...you can't because it's all "THE SKY'S FALLING! THE SKY'S FALLING!" State-Unionists' panic-points.

Tell the lie long and loud and it will become the "true" word!

Problem is...none of that crap is true.

And as much as you believe that there's a KOCH Bros. conspiracy...get over yourselves.

It's a taxpayer revolt that brought Walker to our Govenor's mansion and it's a taxpayer revolt that will bring the State-Union into line with the rest of the taxpaying workers (Union and non-Union) in this state.

Not "O" or his cronies.

Us...the taxpayers of Wisconsin.

Because, without us, there's no money to collect to pay for the "work" they supposedly do.

Do the math.

PaulC · #60 02-27-2011, 06:24 PM

Keep up the good work, Rich. Don't let those union-busting cheeseheads get you down.