Trying to decide on a smaller SUV/Wagen type vehicle. I prefer AWD and dependability is paramount. I also like a quiet highway ride. Price range is up to $10K.
I've narrowed it down to the Honda Element and the Subaru Outback wagon with the 3.0 H-6 (timing chain-no belt issues). Haven't driven either one. I like the looks of both for different reasons, the visibility in the OB seems better, the Element should have fewer problems just by being a Honda, fuel economy seems similar from reading reviews; routine maintenance should be less expensive on the Element as well.
Any thoughts? I'm not set on these two, in fact I considered an E320 4Matic Wagon but they are hard to come by with decent mileage. Feel free to weigh in since I'm open to suggestions and I have 4-6 months before purchase (unless a screaming deal comes along).
Thanks in advance!

__________________
1983 M-B 240D-Gone too.
1976 M-B 300D-Departed.

"Good" is the worst enemy of "Great".

The Element is an old design and is likely to be replaced soon. When it is the price of used ones will drop even more.

Look into this aspect of it. Honda usually keeps this info under wraps, but it would be worth doing a bit of research to see if there is anything to this.

Given only the first two choices, I would have to go with the Outback, as the Element is fugly. With your general criteria of SUV or wagon with AWD/4WD and a quiet highway ride, I would probably get an old XJ (Jeep Cherokee). Their fuel economy isn't as good as the models you mentioned, but the purchase price would be considerably cheaper, and that buys a lot of gas. I would be looking for one with the nearly indestructible 4.0 straight six and a five speed.

__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

I bought a new one earlier this month.and in a few weeks I have already put1400 miles on it already.





I selected the mid level 2.5i Premium PZEV )with the CVT (cntinuously variable automatic transmssion, and the all weather package -heated seats,mirrors andwind shield wipers. (for the snow country here.)_ Splash guards, rear bumper cover,privaxy glass from the factory ar4 all included for just $500 ( in the Premium/allweather versiom, in the most popular set up sold,) over invoice is what I paid.

As we speak, prices are stiffening, so if you want one in your color better act now. the engines and transmissions are made in Japanandsince the big Tsunami delivery is disrupted and the prices are going up as stock go down,they will be very scarce in 3 months, from now, the small dealers are running out already.



For me the 3.0 turbo is just more complexity,expense, and all that extra stuff like leather, moonroff and built in Sat Nav (instant obsolescnce) is a waste of money and boosts the MSRP over 31k for no good reason I can see.






This is the second year of the new design.

They now true SUV/snow vehicles, and very user friendly. they look a LOt LKE THE EXPENSIVE pORSCHE cAYENNE AD bmw x5 suvSIF YOU LOOK AT THEM, BUT ARE FAR CHEAPER AND MORRE RELIABLE.

Very bulletproof.need almostno services,very romy cargo and front and rear seat area, and the 2.5i gets 29 mpg highway on cheap regul;ar, the 3.0 turbo 6 somewhat less.

At 3800+ lbsthey are really heabvy and have a passenger roll cage built in.

TheIR "boxer" HORIZONTALLY OPPOSED engine design gives them a lower center of gravity which maks them safer, yet STILL VERY feablse to traverse off roads well.

Motor Trend awarded them the 2009 and 2010 SUV of the year accolades.


At just $26,141 for mine it was a terriffic value, I feel.(Invoice for it was $26,415 AND THEY SHOWED ME THE INVOICE

The cloth seats are incredibly firm and supportive and the driving position is excellent.

I passed on the Harmon Kardon optional stereo,because the factory optional subwoofer under the front seat and dash twyeete3rsarejust as good.sounding but can be put in for a fraction of the cost.

Subaru pioneered AWD cars and has always stuck to that niche.

Now though they are mainstream and hugely popular vehicles, and excellent dealer support systemsnation wide.

They are excellent cars for long distance driving but are still compact and nimble enough to be fine in congested areas too.

I'm very pleased with mine. I traded in a perfectly good '09
Mercury Grand Marquis for it, because I got sick of being stuck in snow all the time. I doubt that will happen now.

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

The Outback is a little more aero and probably will be quieter on the highway as a result. Also, Honda isn't known for extravagant applications of sound deadening. The Outback will likely be a bit quicker.

Last fall I bought the bride a 2011 subaru legacy with the same midlevel package as Jim B's. I hope the CVT tranny has staying power but it allows for 34 mpg; not too hard to take. Wife loves the car and although the 4-banger is a bit noisy under acceleration, once at speed the ride is most acceptable. Sub now has just short of 22K on the odo with no issues whatsoever.

Jim

__________________
2005 C240 4matic wagon (daily driver)
87 190D - 225K (on loan)
85 190D - 312K (on loan)
2011 Subaru Legacy AWD (Wife's)

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a nice AWD Element for $10K. Maybe higher, maybe a high mileage.

Honda discontinued it. One of the reasons was lack of market distinction, even in their showroom since it was sort of like the CRV but not quite.

I like some of the design features: suicide doors for loading large boxes/cargo, "almost" a hose out interior, split tailgate.

What about an Outlander? Similar-ish?

I have one. Bought for $700, needed a transfer case ($40) Tires ($200) and I was promptly sideswiped by an elderly lady (ins paid $800) I removed and painted the fender flares, got help straighting the drivers side fended... And then crashed it all on my own (with the encouragement of friends) into a pile of asphalt... Damaged the other fender, and the door......................... $400 into the suspension (wear/tear items mostly, except the bent control arm bracket).

It does what I want it to. It has no rust, just lots of dents now. In town MPG with a farily heavy foot is 13-14mpg. Interstate is 20mpg. Towing a 84? BMW 3 series on a dolly at 55mph, and towing the unloaded dolly home at 65mph netted exactly 14mpg.

Easy to work on. Cheap enough parts. Durable. Nice seating position. Comfy? No. Efficient? No. Cargo area? No (except the roof)

__________________
95 Honda Shadow ACE 1100.
1999 Plymouth Neon Expresso. 2.4 swap, 10.5 to 1 comp, big cams. Autocross time attack vehicle!
2012 Escape, 'hunter" (5 sp 4cyl)

We looked at both last year, before settling on a 2010 Element. The short version - they're both great in their own right, but they're completely different vehicles for different needs.

If driving ability/comfort is for you - the Outback wins, hands down. More power, handles better, the AWD is superior, and the creature comforts far surpass the Element. You can't even get leather in an Element.

For us, utility is more important - and here the Element cleans the Outback's clock. Given that there's no carpet in the vehicle, it's a snap to clean up. The cargo area is huge, perfectly flat, and very well designed. The suicide doors up front, and the double tailgate make access from any angle easy. This is an area where specs don't tell the whole story - cubic feet doesn't mean squat, if the dimensions don't handle large and bulky items...something the Element does better than just about anything short of a truck or van. Two recent hauling chores - a pinball machine (top installed, but legs removed), and a 55" bathroom vanity. Both fit with plenty of room to spare.

With a large cargo carrier up top, I can carry almost as much in the Element as I can in my full size truck. Slap a wiring kit and 2" hitch on it for about $200, and it's quite a capable towing rig for small to medium tasks. If memory serves, official towing capacity is 2K - but I've towed my 2300 lb. boat/trailer over the I-5 Grapevine, and held 60MPH with ease. On flat ground, I can hardly tell it's there. Pulls a 5x8 enclosed trailer filled with crap just fine as well. Given that the CRV has much higher official towing capacities in some countries, and shares the same engine/chassis - I'd probably be comfortable towing up to 3500 if trailer brakes were in place.

Given our need to transport three active and often dirty dogs around routinely, along with other routine hauling chores - it was a great choice for us. But, there's no getting around the obvious downsides...while power is adequate, the transmission does tend to hunt around a bunch, particularly when loaded up or driving in heavy winds. Being that it's essentially a box, mileage isn't great - but not too bad. We get 23-25 combined, with AWD. Noise levels aren't terrible, but with no carpet it's certainly no Benz. Visibility is exceptional - better than any vehicle I've owned.

But yeah...I'll accept the "fugly" opinions. My wife hates it for that reason, even though she loves it for the practicality. We name all of our cars - this one is Bozo, after her best friend told her she drives a "clown car"...

They DO look like clown cars! Good one! Ha!

__________________
'06 E320 CDI
'17 Corvette Stingray Vert

Subaru's are very nice cars can't imagine you going wrong with one in good shape.

I'd drive both and see which works better for you.

IMHO Subaru does a very, very good job with their AWD system, better than Honda.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I doubt you could go wrong with either. Having said that, my wife drives a 2004 AWD Element we bought new. It has 130K or so on it now and never a hiccup. It's great on snowy roads and in beach sand. Our "driveway" is several miles of sometimes graded dirt. The car is as tight as the day it rolled out the dealer showroom.
What I find most amazing about it is it's rear storage versatility. The back seats can either be folded UP out of the way or easily removed altogether, creating cavernous room. I'll wager that for longer 2 person trips the Element beats the Outback in storage by a long shot. When ours was new, my wife was out of town and I had to take three full sized dairy goats, about 200 pounds each and as big as miniature horses to another town for breeding. Timing was critical and my pickup was in the shop. I loaded all three into the back of the Element and transported them easily 100 miles and back. The interior, being all wash-down waterproof synthetics with nary a bit of carpeting or plush in sight, cleaned up good as new. She never suspected I'd moved goats in it and didn't believe it when I told her. Her interior has held up remarkably well and looks brand new to this day.
I like Subies, and the outback is doubtless more comfy and quiet, but needing utility over snazz, I'd grab another Element in a heartbeat.

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

I love my Element but I use it strictly to haul my Labrador retrievers around. It was bought just for them. It is easy to clean out, just park on a hill and get out the garden hose.

If you do the service yourself, you will curse the Element because that little tiny oil filter is hard to get to and when you do get it, it runs oil all over the CV joint when you take it off unless you purchase a magnetic deflector.

__________________
"Life is tough...it's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne


Dave
Pawleys Island, SC

'79 300CD

Where is our mod Tyler when we need him?
Best you PM him with what you are after. See what he can find for you.

__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

Nah...I've got it down pat. It's easy once you've been shown a few tricks.

Getting at the filter is not too bad from the top, with the right combo of tools. Plenty of filter wrenches actually fit the filter, but the only type I found that works without cussing, is a fitted flute style. Lisle makes a cheap one that works perfectly. The other trick - use a 1/4" drive ratchet with an adaptor on the 3/8" filter wrench. I use the 1/4" ratchet w/adaptor instead of a stubby 3/8", as they typically have fine teeth, and are smaller/thinner than a 3/8" stubby giving more room to work in the cramped area back there.

RE the oil from the filter - folks who have the magnetic shovel swear by it, but I've never needed it...it's all technique. Just crack the filter loose a tad prior to draining the crankcase - just enough to break the seal, not enough to drip. Once the oil drains from the crankcase, remove the filter as quickly as you can, tilting it up and removing from the top once it clears the threads. If you go fast, the small amount of oil remaining will mostly stay in the filter - it spills maybe a teaspoon. What does come out is easily caught by stuffing a couple paper towels right under it.