The words mechanic and thief are interchangeable these day's. A professional should easily be able to swap out a caliper in 1/2 hour. Multiple that by 2 and add 30 minutes to bleed, at most.

I mean really, how long does it take to remove the tire, 2 caliper bolts and a fluid line? Mounting the pads and caliper is just as quick.

I recently took my neighbors car to Mieneke for front pads(she asked me too). They wanted $200 just to swap out the pads. Did it myself in an hour for $40 bucks.

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Question Authority before it Questions you.

Thanks for denigrating all mechanics with your unjust and obviously biased comments. Just because a shadetree(you) diy owner can change a caliper in .5 hrs doesn't mean that a legitimate shop should charge a customer the same. Ever heard of the concept of flat rate?

I don't know what you do for a living, but you sure wouldn't like it if you were called a thief because you were trying to make a honest living. I guess us grease monkeys will never get any respect around here. That might be why few professionals bother to post on the forum anymore.

When you make a large capital investment in a shop, and can pay your employees a living wage working on the mostly decrepit pos cars being discussed here, then you could make a qualified statement about the auto repair industry.

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"I was a dirty bird, Carol's not grungey - she's *****in" John Milner....American Graffiti

My car, for one, is not a decrepit POS. I didn't make the blanket statement about mechanics. However, the ones that I have gone to with my Mercedes have all tried to rip me royally. Two actually succeded. That was early on. I hope to avoid it ever happening again.

There are no doubt good honest mechasnics out there. It's just a challenge finding one before we lose all faith and attempt most of the work ourselves. I would certainly have no problem paying a good honest mechanic their $85-$125 hourly rate if they actually charged only for the time that they worked on the car.

My problem with them is their estimated time chart. For example, I took my car to have the engine mounts and engine shocks changed. He originally gave me one price and later changed it when I arrived to pick up the car. He said it was a misunderstanding. He said the manual called for 2.5 hours of labor for the job. He then said he was only going to charge me 2 hours because that's how long it took him.

I wanted to know how it could possibly have taken him 2 hours when he only had my car for 1.5. Even so, I didn't quarrel with him and learned my lesson. My point is, if you have an hourly rate, why is that not based on the ACTUAL time it takes to repair a car? I imagine it's something like lawyers and their billable hours.

The mechanic that took the cake for me was the one who was going to charge me $105 to put in a trans lever bushing. I was going to have him do a bunch of front end work and the bushing would have just been a quick "while the car's up in the air" deal. I mean, I did it myself in 5 minutes.

Ever hear of the concept of man-hours? 2 guys working 1 hour each equals 2 man-hours. One guy doing on side, and another working the other. Or some jobs just go a lot better with 2 guys.

It's not all a rip-off scheme, there are other costs that factor in. Tools, building rent, utilities, license fees, taxes, wages, and so on. Depending on where you are, some of those costs can be quite different. Don't go painting everyone with such a broad brush.

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Remember, it's not just a car. It's an Adventure.

No, I'm too ignorant to understand what man-hours means. That notwithstanding, if he's the ONLY guy in the shop how could there be more than ONE man-hour each hour? Enlighten me, as my ignorance is obviously very broad.

Oh, and as far as shop costs like rent or mortgage and insurance...that should all be built into the cost of ONE hour's labor rate. If it's not, then a sign should be posted stating that there will be an additional charge to the customer so that they may help pay those costs.

I don't go to Macy's and purchase a shirt for the price stated on the tag and expect to get hit with an extra bill for electricity at the register.

Of course, overhead and other things are factored into the labor rate.


I also charge a minimal fee for shop supplies like brake cleaner and hardware. I use Wurth hardware, not Chinese hardware store stuff. Ever priced Wurth hardware? It's not cheap.

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"I was a dirty bird, Carol's not grungey - she's *****in" John Milner....American Graffiti

I meant no denigration towards the honest and hard working mechanic. It's the greedy shops that take to many liberties with their customers wallets that I have a problem with. Sure their are some honest shops around, but from my experiences they are few and far in-between.

If a job takes 1 hr. at a stated labor rate of $100/hr, I expect pay $100 for the labor, not $150. Flat rate? That's just a term used to charge $150 an hour. And if a part cost you $40 dollars, I don't have a problem with a 20% mark-up. But if you want to charge me $80 well then that's outta line IMO.

If that's unjust and biased then so be it.

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Question Authority before it Questions you.

Obviously, you have no idea what it takes to run a shop. It's a free country, and I run off customers with your pi$$ poor attitude. I have a business to run and bills to pay, not charity to give. Nothing worse than a skinflint MB owner, who thinks thinks that they deserve both the red carpet treatment and discounted parts and service.

It's out of line to charge more than 20% markup on parts and you also presume that I pay my best tech $20/hour or less? I woldn't touch a car that you bring in to my shop. Keep going pal, your the kind of customer that I don't need or want.

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"I was a dirty bird, Carol's not grungey - she's *****in" John Milner....American Graffiti

Don't worry Buddy, you sound exactly like the kind of shop many here hope to avoid.

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Question Authority before it Questions you.

It breaks my heart that we won't have to put up with ignorant and cheap car owners who thinks that they are doing us a favor by letting us work on a ancient decrepit MB covered in oil and rusty hardware.

You probaly don't even know that I have to pay to dispose of used brake fluid, or that I provide latex gloves and charcoal filters for my techs.

Labor pays for overhead, my profit comes from parts, and you presume to tell me that I shouldn't charge more than a 20% markup on them? Get real, I would go broke if I followed your line of thinking.

I would lose money if I charged 1.5 hours to r&r front calipers on a W123, yet you insinuate that anyone who charges more is out of line and a ripoff. First off, I would do a wheel bearing service and mic the rotors as part of the job, or else risk a chargeback from people like you who would complain to Visa ten months from now when the wheel bearings gave out.

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"I was a dirty bird, Carol's not grungey - she's *****in" John Milner....American Graffiti

Ed - where is your shop located at?! Just wanna make sure I don't just accidentally stumble into it...

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1987 Mercedes 300SDL; SOLD
1985 Mercedes 300D; SOLD
2006 Honda Pilot - wife's ride; 122K;
1995 Toyota Land Cruiser - 3X locked; 182K

Say the shop manual shows 2.5 hours for a particular job. Mechanic gets into it only to find rusted bolts, stripped threads, etc etc which results in the job taking 4 hours. Seems to me that the quote should say that the job will take 2.5 if standard, but if unknown problems arise then there may be overages. If the customer is informed of this up front; i.e. "Sir, standard rates indicates the price of repair to be only $200, however if other opportunities arise such as rusted bolts, stripped threads, etc. the price for repair might go as high as $350 - do you still wish for me to repair your car?", the customer is fully informed which results in a "meeting of the minds"

A good business deal is one that is good for BOTH parties.

I work at a chain, we bill $65 an hour flat rate. Sometimes, that one brake job from hell takes 3 hours because of a rusted bolt that broke. Not only is the cost the same for more man hours, but also more parts are ordered at no markup to the customer...

So, where's the profit in that one?

It's all a balance. A brake job on a J body (cav/sunfire) or a small mopar is disgustingly easy, but still costs $65 plus parts.


My chain bills 1 hour for brakes (unless rear disk, with parking shoe replacement, then it's 1.25), .5hr for caliper replacement per side, and .25hr for bleeding the brakes.

What sets me off is when a job takes hours upon hours because of an age related issue, and at no cost to the customer is more done to the vehicle, and they still are upset.
~Nate

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95 Honda Shadow ACE 1100.
1999 Plymouth Neon Expresso. 2.4 swap, 10.5 to 1 comp, big cams. Autocross time attack vehicle!
2012 Escape, 'hunter" (5 sp 4cyl)

Flat rate is the biggest rip-off around.

For 15 years I was a lawyer. The first time you write a will, it takes 30 minutes of talking to clients, three hours of legal research, and 30 minutes of secretary time to type it up. Bill them $750. Next time and every time there after, 30 minutes talking to clients, 10 minutes of secretary time to change names. Bill them $750.

In the last year, I had bad inner front tie-rod ends (yes, MR2s have rear tie rod ends) on my 1987 MR2. I priced three shops and they quoted me around $700 since they would spend 4 hours to remove the steering rack.

Napa sells a tool for $80 that will remove inner tie rod ends on Toyotas, and plenty of other cars, without removing the steering rack. I bought it and did the work in 20 minutes.

How much do you want to bet that the shops that quoted me four hours labor had that tool and were just looking to rip me off?

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1983 300SD "Guderian"
1987 MR2
2015 Camry
2015 Chevy Spark
2006 Hyundai Tucson

I believe that you made your mistake by bringing your old quote to another shop, they will focus on beating labor prices, but without taking a good look at it, they wont see the solution. If the first shop quoted you a rack replacement, the other ones likely went off that estimate.

Standard inner tie rod removal is 1 hour per side, plus align (1 hour)
~Nate

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95 Honda Shadow ACE 1100.
1999 Plymouth Neon Expresso. 2.4 swap, 10.5 to 1 comp, big cams. Autocross time attack vehicle!
2012 Escape, 'hunter" (5 sp 4cyl)