What twisting? You are advocating trusting a bunch of people with a bad track record when handling money to handle money. Either you agree that they have had a bad track record or you don't. It is that simple. If you agree they have a bad track record, how do you say "I got a good deal" from them when they can pay you off here and take there? The math is pretty simple.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Enough.

Yes, Dad. I understand "Because you said so".

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I have no idea what that means.

in regards the original post: the irony is rich.

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Well, if you answered a question directly, there would be no imagination involved, would there? You can't even answer the simple question of whether congress is crooked or not based on their history and present performance when you consider how they shuffle money around that was supposedly set aside for one thing and used for another. If that isn't crooked, what is? If they are crooked, where does the trust in them come from? A liar is not a trustworthy person. A trustworthy person is not a liar. It IS that simple.

Edit: Let me put it to you another way. If you are the player in a "3 card monty" game that won a few hands, do you seriously think you are going to win playing on and on with that dealer? If you know the dealer to be a crook and you enter the game, do you think you will end up as a winner overall? Unless it is to snare in a bigger mark? If I think you are the sort that has a history of rigging 3 card monty games, winning a few hands or seeing other "winners" around me isn't going to encourage me to play or believe your game will make a winner out of me at the end of the day. I understand you like and think the world of SS. But the fact is, it is run by a bunch of 3 card monty dealers. You may win this hand and the next and maybe even the one after that but make no mistake, when you play 3 card monty, you are going to lose eventually. It isn't a question of "if". It is a question of "when". In that respect, I'd think that Bot, with no record of criminal activity vs a bunch of 3 card monty dealers is a no-brainer. Bot would be a much better deal since I don't know of him to cheat me whereas, the other group, well, lets say that they can run accounting games Arthur Andersen cannot do in their wettest of dreams. Feel free to tell me it is wrong to say that.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

It was never a secret that we have been taking money from SS to pay for other things in the budget. We were never lied to , nobody was crooked. It was what the voters wanted.
It was part of the way we have been paying for the income tax cuts we have come to expect.

Instead of corralling spending we double-dip taxes. And so we now have what, $40T in national debt? It give me a yen for Chinese.

You're absolutely right. I take back everything I ever said. Every one of your questions and comments is right on the money. All the things I said in this thread, I will never say any of them again. If I see or hear anyone else say them, I will make them stop immediately.

Does that do it for you? Can we now stop talking about this stupid subject? Good grief.

sooner or later grama and grampa are going to go without heat, food, medicine with dirty repubs wanting to steal the money or misuse it, may as well just set up the death panels because the way the parade is headed--its just cheaper to die (kill em off), like in logans run.

I am not sure if you are simply spouting crap but here goes. There is another option. It's called "PREPARING FOR YOUR FUTURE". I mean, it is YOUR future we are talking about, right? Who but YOU has the responsibility to secure it? Can I hold you responsible for my future? I know, I know. I have only seen quite a few people, including my own parents do it so maybe, it isn't possible.

What people like you want is pretty similar to GM and the banks when they had problems. PRIVATE PROFITS, SOCIALIZED RISK. You want the right to make a decision as you want and if you strike it rich, you want to keep as much as possible. Yet, when you made poor choices, you want someone to assume and/or share in the responsibility. Make up your mind. Either turn everything you have over to the state and be a ward of the state permanently and surrender your rights or take responsibility for YOUR actions be it good or bad.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow