Buying a spy car, conspiracy theory become fact - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #1 09-30-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

That's basically what I thought. I wouldn't mind a periodic "data download" to a computer for a report since it could be used for mileage calculations or creating "date/time/mileage" stamp for things like tire purchase or even business expenses; but since it's my cell phone making the call and my car doing the calling, why should I give the company unspecified access to the computers in the car? Tell me what you're collecting and what you intend to do with it, then maybe.

Another end of it is this. Am I paying for a logging device that can be used against me in a court someday? IIRC, there was a case of downloaded data that was used against a person.

Yak · #2 09-30-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Another end of it is this. Am I paying for a logging device that can be used against me in a court someday? IIRC, there was a case of downloaded data that was used against a person.

IIHS says no, well, maybe, that depends: Q&A: Event data recorders

You own the data. They need consent to get it, unless you've consented by buying a policy that requires it, unless that's against the law in your state.

aklim · #3 09-30-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

IIHS says no, well, maybe, that depends: Q&A: Event data recorders

You own the data. They need consent to get it, unless you've consented by buying a policy that requires it, unless that's against the law in your state.

2 Are passenger vehicles required to have EDRs? No. They aren't mandatory but many automakers choose to include them in their cars. In August 2006, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued an EDR rule that will apply to 2013 and later models. The rule standardizes the information EDRs collect and makes retrieving the data easier. Devices defined as EDRs must record 15 data elements, including vehicle deceleration, in specific formats. More advanced EDRs may record additional information from the engine control module, antilock brakes, and other vehicle systems. Federal rules outline as many as 30 extra data elements that advanced EDRs must log. Vehicle manufacturers must publicly share information about how to download EDR data, and they have to include a statement in the owner's manual telling consumers that their vehicle has an EDR.

7 What are the potential uses of the data? EDRs can provide information about a crash that can't be obtained through more traditional investigation techniques. Police, crash investigators, automakers, insurance adjusters, and highway safety researchers can use this information to analyze what occurred during a crash. The data may help automakers improve occupant restraint systems and vehicle structures.3,4
EDR data may be useful in determining culpability. For example, EDR data from a car involved in an August 2002 crash in Florida showed the vehicle was traveling at 114 mph seconds before it struck another vehicle, killing two passengers. The EDR data were used to convict the driver of manslaughter.5

9 Who owns the data and who has access? EDRs and the data they store belong to vehicle owners. Police, insurers, researchers, automakers, and others may gain access to the data with owner consent. Without consent, access may be obtained through a court order. For example, in a Florida criminal case involving a vehicular manslaughter charge, the police obtained a warrant to access the EDR data.5
For crashes that don't involve litigation, especially when police or insurers are interested in assessing fault, insurers may be able to access the EDRs in their policyholders' vehicles based on provisions in the insurance contract requiring policyholders to cooperate with the insurer. However, some states prohibit insurance contracts from requiring policyholders to consent to access.8,9

Sorry, that tells me that I don't have absolute control of the data. When somebody can access the data, it makes me nervous. It starts us out on a slippery slope. My wife can take the 5th. The EDR cannot. What it is like to me is this. I have to pay for a cop to sit beside me. No thanx.

Yak · #4 09-30-2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

2 Are passenger vehicles required to have EDRs? No. They aren't mandatory but many automakers choose to include them in their cars. In August 2006, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued an EDR rule that will apply to 2013 and later models. The rule standardizes the information EDRs collect and makes retrieving the data easier. Devices defined as EDRs must record 15 data elements, including vehicle deceleration, in specific formats. More advanced EDRs may record additional information from the engine control module, antilock brakes, and other vehicle systems. Federal rules outline as many as 30 extra data elements that advanced EDRs must log. Vehicle manufacturers must publicly share information about how to download EDR data, and they have to include a statement in the owner's manual telling consumers that their vehicle has an EDR.

7 What are the potential uses of the data? EDRs can provide information about a crash that can't be obtained through more traditional investigation techniques. Police, crash investigators, automakers, insurance adjusters, and highway safety researchers can use this information to analyze what occurred during a crash. The data may help automakers improve occupant restraint systems and vehicle structures.3,4
EDR data may be useful in determining culpability. For example, EDR data from a car involved in an August 2002 crash in Florida showed the vehicle was traveling at 114 mph seconds before it struck another vehicle, killing two passengers. The EDR data were used to convict the driver of manslaughter.5

9 Who owns the data and who has access? EDRs and the data they store belong to vehicle owners. Police, insurers, researchers, automakers, and others may gain access to the data with owner consent. Without consent, access may be obtained through a court order. For example, in a Florida criminal case involving a vehicular manslaughter charge, the police obtained a warrant to access the EDR data.5
For crashes that don't involve litigation, especially when police or insurers are interested in assessing fault, insurers may be able to access the EDRs in their policyholders' vehicles based on provisions in the insurance contract requiring policyholders to cooperate with the insurer. However, some states prohibit insurance contracts from requiring policyholders to consent to access.8,9

Sorry, that tells me that I don't have absolute control of the data. When somebody can access the data, it makes me nervous. It starts us out on a slippery slope. My wife can take the 5th. The EDR cannot. What it is like to me is this. I have to pay for a cop to sit beside me. No thanx.

True - they can subpoena the data, if it exists. And I suppose that could start down the path of "obstruction of justice" if you somehow deleted the data. If information is there, someone else will somehow try to claim ownership of it.

I assume the mandate is intended to give NHTSA some ability to investigate and control electronic systems. If manufacturers systems are all proprietary, then it could be the fox guarding the henhouse when it comes to investigating problems.

Or maybe it's a method to provide the black helicopter-hacker crowd the ability to take over your car remotely - like the robots did to Will Smith.

Or to let state agencies start taxing and tolling by miles driven...or self-reporting speeding tickets...auto-speed control in school zones...yeah...

spdrun · #5 09-30-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

Or to let state agencies start taxing and tolling by miles driven...or self-reporting speeding tickets...auto-speed control in school zones...yeah...

Nah, EDRs are wired devices and only record the last 30-sec of data before an impact. Not particularly bothersome compared to a system (OnStar) that can transmit your location at will, wirelessly.

aklim · #6 09-30-2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

I assume the mandate is intended to give NHTSA some ability to investigate and control electronic systems. If manufacturers systems are all proprietary, then it could be the fox guarding the henhouse when it comes to investigating problems.

Or to let state agencies start taxing and tolling by miles driven...or self-reporting speeding tickets...auto-speed control in school zones...yeah...

IF it were to give the manufacturers data to better the car, that is one thing. But if it can bite you back in the ass, you should be informed and have a choice if you want the data logged or not.