My local lawn mower guy I visit once in a blue moon was servicing a 7hp Briggs and he found out through a rep ,who was their at the shop ,that its all built in a little old town in China now,the newest problem their seeing crop up out of the engines is a plastic spacer at the carb area, they lose their seal after warping when the engines get hot during operation ,I really dont think they test anything over their for performance, its all due to a lack of passion to build something well,when your paid 10c an hr you get 10c of craftsmenship in a product ,no pride.
They all laughed at the rep when they caught the problem ,he kind of left feeling like a heel.

I remember hearing Harley Davidson's then president Jim McCaslin tell a group that their electrical harnesses were being made in China. At 200,000 total units, no US manufacturer could/would compete. I have no idea how the quality was or if they still outsource the production.

Is B&S still HQ'd in Milwaukee... like Harley? How's the cost of labor out there stack up with China?

I disagree about this passion thing. I doubt many of the workers here have much of a passion for anything else besides their paycheck. Do you believe that the GM line worker has a concern beside the paycheck? I doubt he cares that this is the 1000th car he has built without a hitch. As to what they are paid in China, if it is the prevailing wage, that is what it is. Those people are hungry and not fat and lazy. Remember the chink working on the railroad? Pretty much the same attitude. He'd be paid less, worked harder, more danger of losing his job but somehow managed to save more than the white man. He'd be the "yellow n1gger". In the end, his life sucked but he made the next generation a little better.

As to the issue, the problem is this. Who told them to put the plastic spacer there? If it shouldn't have been there, it is the US people that should have told them what to make. They made it to spec. US Spec. Don't blame that on China or anyone else. It is YOUR spec and YOUR dept of design and QC that should have ensured that it is done right. Their mess is YOUR fault not their fault. China produces crap because the US company told them to cut all the corners. If they were producing something that wasn't at spec, we should have told them that it was unacceptable. Instead, we agreed to accept it and then we blame them for the crap that comes out.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Kohler engines are going through the same changes with very bad results for the consumer ,the Kohler Courage engines which are used on the riders are bitting the dust on such a large scale its kind of an epic event for the brand name .Now that they saved all that money on labor they can turn around and give it back to the customers under the warranty.The quickest way to build a successful business is to sell something that last ,this is how you end a company and a brand.

Crap, Briggs and Stratton?

Irwin, the vise grip leader, moved to China not long ago. I remember some Chinese made cheapo vise-grips (sorry, locking pliers) I bought in the mid 90s - one of the jaws broke when I really torqued on it. They'll be the real deal now.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

that carb issues plagues most all the chinese stuff I have bought (Harbor Frieght, Tractor Supply) basically after a season its toast. welcome to the new world order, of ****....

You (the buying public) want, you got. Ask yourself why Sears that used to sell Craftsman tools mostly now also sells Evolv and Companion tools if not to compete with the cheap crap that is sold in Wal*Mart. Don't blame the store for carrying what you (the buying public) wants. It is NOT their job to get you the best product you can buy. It is their job to sell what the public wants.

People have always been "penny wise, pound foolish". They talk themselves into something that costs less today regardless of the cost tomorrow. Remember what happened after Katrina? People dumped SUVs and Trucks that WERE PAID FOR to have a lower sticker shock at the pump without regard to what it finally cost them.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Having spent a fair amount of time in the Middle Kindgom, I can tell you that the Chinese are very definitely capable of quality. What happens, is that buyers / production managers constantly push for faster cheaper, etc. and the Chinese deliver what's asked.

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Remember, Safety Third!
'99 E300 Turbodiesel, '82 300TD, 1996 12V Cummins Turbo, '94 Neoplan - Detroit 6V92TA

A real story on how some Mower suppliers like H Depot have successfully crooked people out of repairs.Its a matter of knowing what to do in some cases.A 2 yr old Club Cadet riding mower cost this customer some $1400. at purchase time ,his warrenty was 3 yrs ,in not getting the proper advise on his next step he took it to a local mower shop to be looked at.The diagnoisis wasnt good ,a completely trashed Kohler motor.In making some calls to the dealer he was then advised his warrenty was void since he did not take it to an authorized service center.This maybe the way some of this is being handeled,blame it on the other guy.

And whose fault is that? You want, you got. It doesn't say "you get to blame me for not liking what you asked for."

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I would think that the only way they can void it is IF this local shop took it apart. When you have a warranty issue, I don't understand why you would bring it somewhere else besides the manufacturer or the authorized repair shop.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

That's exactly right. We are agreed.

__________________
Remember, Safety Third!
'99 E300 Turbodiesel, '82 300TD, 1996 12V Cummins Turbo, '94 Neoplan - Detroit 6V92TA

What I don't seem to understand is why people keep blaming China for the crap that comes out when it is we who specified the product and accepted it and put it out for sale.

I think we do KNOW what they are doing to an extent. We just turn a blind eye because it is coming in cheap and we hope it goes away undetected.

Even if we didn't know, where is our QC that does the checking? Did they just hope for the best?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

We send buyers over there who probably get paid based on how much they can lower cost. For manufactured goods? Same thing. Cheaper cheaper cheaper! As long as it is still shiny when it leaves the store, that's good enough.

The Chinese will build whatever you want, however you want. The only thing that matters to them is You pay now! They aren't stamping their name on it. They are stamping Briggs, or Black & Decker, or whatever. So why would they care? The buyer reminds them all the time, if you don't make it cheaper, we'll go down the road and get it made over there. What the hell do you expect to get. It's funny to hear people complain about quality and "it costs too much" at the same time.

Yeah, and cashing that bonus check.

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Remember, Safety Third!
'99 E300 Turbodiesel, '82 300TD, 1996 12V Cummins Turbo, '94 Neoplan - Detroit 6V92TA

yep

If you want a small gasoline engine that is going to provide good service make sure it has Honda written on it.

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Jim