Double thanks.

You guys have dreamed up some theoretical scenario which cannot be duplicate in the real world. In the real world 4wd rules racing when it is legal. Show me scientific proof I am wrong.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Great job of research and presentation, Rick.

I have iron rotors and organic pads for the most part. Ceramic pads will not cause a car to dip in the rear under braking.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

if this is not real racing then maybe look up ANY race track record.

VIR
Virginia International Raceway lap records - FastestLaps.com

HMM top 10 track times only 2 are AWD, they must have forgot to turn off the physics, of the top 100 only 23 are AWD.

laguna seca
Laguna Seca lap records - FastestLaps.com
top 10 track times only 1 is AWD, of the top 100 only 12 are AWD

same story with willow springs
Willow Springs lap records - FastestLaps.com

you would think that with SUCH a HUGE AWD benefit, they would be lining up on the top there.

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198? 300D ???K - Future DD
1989 300TE 285K - traded in '12
1984 300SD 186K - Sold in 08
1978 300SD 330K - Died in 05

Ned took care of that perfectly.

You are wrong and you have always been wrong. With constant friction and an expert driver, the 2wd vehicle always wins.

If you're subpar or you have subpar friction (varying condition), you'll find that 4wd will help you.

You have already experienced this on your dirt tracks..........so all the data correlates.

Why? Pad composition will not affect suspension geometry.

We agree.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

check out STU. the winner is a bmw but all the rest are subies and Mitsubishi 4wd.

as for the other tracks, look at positions ten and eleven at laguna and you find the Nissan STR (or whatever the letters are) which is four wheel drive and certainly not in the leage of Ferraris, vipers and such. Its basically a sedan with a big motor and FWD. Audi Quattro too with a little sedan like 4.2 liter motor. Not really apples to apples is it?

the Indianpolis 500 was the perfect showcase since there were no weight limits, or such back in 67. With less power the STP car blew off all comers until it broke a minor part near the end. I am not familiar with the model designations but Lambo, Ferrari and Porsche all offer 4WD high performance variations which are great athletes....

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

And you're that expert driver?

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

yeah, a "STREET TOURING" class that limits to 140 thread street tire (no R compounds) and if you are comparing that you need to compare it the STR (street touring RWD/Roadster) where the best AWD car you mentioned would rank 9th there.

so you limit the traction available by going to street tires and allowing for modification, yeah i can see how AWD will help out there.

i Don't think you really know these cars.

The 8th place is the Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 which is a AWD car with a v12 and 700 hp and cost over $350K.

The Nissan GT-R is NOT a sedan - it is the AWD super car killer, the wonder 100K Nissan. it has 550 hp and certainly belongs in that group.

the Audi R8 is not a "little sedan" is it a 2 door $100K super car, the GT version has a 5.2 lliter V10 that cost over $200K.

are you saying these are not in the same league as a corvette and viper?

i cant comment on indy 500, i know nothing of them. but as you pointed out the fastest lambo currently got beat by a corvette and viper.

ferrari only has 1 current AWD that i know of, the FF and it is a GT car and will not compete with the rest of the RWD offering.

The 911 turbo is slower on the track than the GT2RS and GT3RS. do you think there is a reason they decided to use a RWD in the GT2RS and GT3RS to save weight? they could have thrown the AWD system from the 911 turbo in there and gain more speed. those German engineers must not know anything.

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198? 300D ???K - Future DD
1989 300TE 285K - traded in '12
1984 300SD 186K - Sold in 08
1978 300SD 330K - Died in 05

Why, yes........yes I am.

From looking at some of the posted lap times, it's apparent to me that in order for AWD to present an advantage on clean dry pavement with race rubber, the power to weight ratio needs to be well into supercar territory. Try the same thing on a wet track and I'm sure the results will be different.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

Agreed, and there is no doubt AWD has brought domination to rally over RWD. when i autocrossed and it rained half way through the event the AWD cars were so far ahead of everything it was crazy. althought they do have hoosier wets for people running R compounds i am not sure how effective that is vs having an AWD drivetrain there.

But to say AWD is better than RWD in all motorsport is ridiculous.

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198? 300D ???K - Future DD
1989 300TE 285K - traded in '12
1984 300SD 186K - Sold in 08
1978 300SD 330K - Died in 05

Well, you'd have to look at what the GT2RS was built for. Was it built for a class where AWD was allowed?

I know that recent 911s are offered with AWD and RWD. Are there any models that are the same except for that? I wonder if there is a comparison test with them?

You offer cars that are in no way equal and say that 2wd is superior. A 350,000 low slung lambo is equal to the Nissan which is a high center of gravity vehicle which looks like a two door sedan and costs 100K and say that proves something?

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.