So Much for AWD - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sixto · #1 03-24-2013, 02:48 AM

The myth of the all-powerful all-wheel drive - Yahoo! Autos

Quote:

However, my experience—hard-earned from wrecking more than one AWD vehicle during snow-handling tests for a tire company—is that AWD is counter-productive when the roads are slick. At the same time AWD doesn't improve your handling, it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop. (Note to those from warm climes: Snowbanks are not puffy and cushiony.) The laws of physics mean a vehicle's cornering power is the job of the tires and suspension.

...

If you're looking for the peace of mind in knowing that you'll be able to get home if an unexpected snowstorm hits, AWD may be a good choice for you. However, if you think that AWD will help your car better grip slippery corners or dodge an indecisive squirrel, you're sadly mistaken. A good set of snow tires is a better investment if you live where it snows frequently or if the highway department is poor at plowing roads.

So why are Subarus so popular in coastal California?

Sixto
87 300D

Skid Row Joe · #2 03-24-2013, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

The myth of the all-powerful all-wheel drive - Yahoo! Autos

So why are Subarus so popular in coastal California?

Sixto
87 300D

Stigma/flocking......? That's gotta be it.

Unless you need/are assisted by AWD - you don't need it. It inspires confidence in the right road conditions, which is where it is worth it's weight in gold.

Pooka · #3 03-24-2013, 04:48 AM

About fifty years ago someone pointed out to me that four wheel drive only gets you four times as stuck. After watching a number of Yahoos around here driving 75 on snow covered roads and then winding up in a ditch later I can see the wisdom in that statement.

When Audi came out with the Quattro back in the early 80's they made it clear the reason was not for slick road traction, it was for dry road traction. They were trying to come up with a way to put 300 HP through a front wheel drive system and finally gave up on it. So they just used the quattro system they had developed for truck use and found that would not only allow a small truck to get around in snowy condition but would also put power down where it could find any grip at all.

By the way... With the quattro system they had then if you were in really slick conditions and the car could get no grip at all the tires would not spin. They would just not move since they had to have some grip in order to activate the system.

catmandoo62 · #4 03-24-2013, 09:47 AM

in the last 2 big snowstorms of all the vehicles i saw in the ditch.out of probably 50 maybe 5 were 2 wd the rest were all AWD or 4wd.

The Swede · #5 03-24-2013, 10:02 AM

When we have 10" of fresh snow (with existing ice on the pavement) on my unplowed alley at 7am - more than likely will get stuck with my snow tire equipped M3 and my wife's Outback will breeze through.

Emmerich · #6 03-24-2013, 11:08 AM

An old Beetle works well in the snow, ditto a 911.

Stretch · #7 03-24-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

An old Beetle works well in the snow, ditto a 911.

Also the Hillman Imp and my 1980s Honda Civic did quite well which was quite surprising for a front wheel drive car...

Pooka · #8 03-24-2013, 01:02 PM

Something I found rather amazing was a 2006 Impala with traction control.

Got stuck in a real live blizzard north of Tulsa about seven years ago and I covered 40 miles with no trouble at all. Of course this is mostly prairie land with no big hills, but I never lost traction.

I think one of the important things is to remember you are driving in snow and to act like it.

compu_85 · #9 03-24-2013, 12:54 PM

Having driven an AWD vehicle in the snow (Audi 5000Q), I can say this article is baloney. I had snows on both my FWD Jetta and AWD Audi, and the Audi cornered better, moved off from a stop better, and seemed to steer better too. Of course I also know how to drive in the snow, so I didn't push it. But it was amazing how I simply couldn't get the car stuck.

That was in Michigan. Here in Virginia there is definitely less need for AWD.

-J

Brian Carlton · #10 03-24-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compu_85

Having driven an AWD vehicle in the snow (Audi 5000Q), I can say this article is baloney. I had snows on both my FWD Jetta and AWD Audi, and the Audi cornered better, moved off from a stop better, and seemed to steer better too. Of course I also know how to drive in the snow, so I didn't push it. But it was amazing how I simply couldn't get the car stuck.

That was in Michigan. Here in Virginia there is definitely less need for AWD.

-J

The Audi cannot "corner better" as cornering capability is only a function of the friction of the tires and not whether the tires are driving or not. If you Audi cornered better, the Audi had winter tires on it.........otherwise the statement is false.

Of course it moved from a stop better.........it has four wheels driving it.

If it "seemed to steer better", again, it points to better tires on the front wheels. The driving rear wheels don't affect the steering in the slightest.

I agree that it is more difficult to get the car stuck. However, the article never claimed otherwise.

davidmash · #11 03-24-2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The Audi cannot "corner better" as cornering capability is only a function of the friction of the tires and not whether the tires are driving or not. If you Audi cornered better, the Audi had winter tires on it.........otherwise the statement is false.

Of course it moved from a stop better.........it has four wheels driving it.

If it "seemed to steer better", again, it points to better tires on the front wheels. The driving rear wheels don't affect the steering in the slightest.

I agree that it is more difficult to get the car stuck. However, the article never claimed otherwise.

If you are driving on an uninterrupted piece of ice the statement would be true but that is rarely the case. Typically the roads I have traveled on have patches of ice/road intermixed so if a car with AWD has a tire that hits a patch of good road it can give a bit of added traction and movement where a 2WD would not.

AWD cannot create traction where none exists and I have not seen claims other wise. All things being equal, the AWD will have a better time of it than a 2WD car.

Brian Carlton · #12 03-24-2013, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

If you are driving on an uninterrupted piece of ice the statement would be true but that is rarely the case. Typically the roads I have traveled on have patches of ice/road intermixed so if a car with AWD has a tire that hits a patch of good road it can give a bit of added traction and movement where a 2WD would not.

It can give a bit of added traction. Correct. You affect the capability of the vehicle to move "forward".

It cannot affect or improve the "handling" of the vehicle, which, by definition, affects the ability to change the direction you want the vehicle to go.

I'm a bit surprised you would be in the 4wd camp for all the wrong reasons.

The Clk Man · #13 03-24-2013, 05:32 PM

My 2wd f-150 would get stuck even if it wasn't snowing. My mountaineer AWD worked well this winter.

davidmash · #14 03-24-2013, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compu_85

Having driven an AWD vehicle in the snow (Audi 5000Q), I can say this article is baloney. I had snows on both my FWD Jetta and AWD Audi, and the Audi cornered better, moved off from a stop better, and seemed to steer better too. Of course I also know how to drive in the snow, so I didn't push it. But it was amazing how I simply couldn't get the car stuck.

That was in Michigan. Here in Virginia there is definitely less need for AWD.

-J

Why does the car look like it has camo on it?

Skid Row Joe · #15 03-24-2013, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Why does the car look like it has camo on it?

Well, perhaps because it's a dupe picture posted from elsewhere. FWIW, that body style of Audi pictured was by measure, one of the most dated / homely designs of it's time. It only gets worse by seeing it again in 2013.