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  #16  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
How so, are prices for goods pegged to the federal minimum wage? That would be an interesting theory, which would make sense if people at or below the poverty threshold were the consumer's which drove pricing. Under you theory, if the minimum wage advances, then the "Dollar Menu" would be come the "Five Dollar Menu?"
Probably not, but it will increase prices. It might become the Dollar Fifty Menu.

What we need, more than minimum wage increases (which I support, but not 50% in a year!) is:
(1) to end policies that encourage asset speculation, including speculation in necessities.
(2) a tariff on "third-world" goods to reflect the disparity in environmental regulation and labor rules -- currently, the de-facto minimum wage in the US is $1 or $2 per hour if you count manufacturing abroad.
(3) to encourage automation so that skilled domestic workers at $20/hr and their robots can replace ten Chinese bio-robots at $1 or $2 per hour.
(4) a shift away from a consumerist attitude -- do we really need an iToy every year? -- and towards one that supports education, research, and enjoyment of life.

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  #17  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:12 PM
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This is response to Hatties post.

Maybe, but it also could be argued that industry would eliminate jobs whenever possible no matter what the pay is.
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Last edited by t walgamuth; 12-16-2013 at 06:32 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Probably not, but it will increase prices. It might become the Dollar Fifty Menu.

What we need, more than minimum wage increases (which I support, but not 50% in a year!) is:
(1) to end policies that encourage asset speculation, including speculation in necessities.
(2) a tariff on "third-world" goods to reflect the disparity in environmental regulation and labor rules -- currently, the de-facto minimum wage in the US is $1 or $2 per hour if you count manufacturing abroad.
(3) to encourage automation so that skilled domestic workers at $20/hr and their robots can replace ten Chinese bio-robots at $1 or $2 per hour.
(4) a shift away from a consumerist attitude -- do we really need an iToy every year? -- and towards one that supports education, research, and enjoyment of life.

That's a better plan than I have heard come out of DC in a long time, pretty much nails all the problems.
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Maybe, but it also could be argued that industry would eliminate jobs whenever possible no matter what the pay is.
Of course and that's been the case since the dawn of modern civilization. Even the Navy is doing it with their new class of aircraft carrier. Off the top of my head I think they eliminated 1,500 sailors.

The problem with rapid wage increases, IE 50% overnight like this is that it shocks the labor markets. All of a sudden you will have business's that are operating at a 1%-4% margin with $7.25 workers see that margin largely evaporate.

So they will have to adapt or die, ie raise prices as much as the markets will allow and invest in technology to cut costs. Front end employees will be reduced and back room employes might see themselves replaced with robots.

Lastly they will need to get more productivity out of what workers they have left. So what you will probably see in this cities case are the marginal employees getting pushed out, because $15 is enough to start to attract some competent people. The marginal people at $7.25 will probably find themselves unable to get employment.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Probably not, but it will increase prices. It might become the Dollar Fifty Menu.

What we need, more than minimum wage increases (which I support, but not 50% in a year!) is:
(1) to end policies that encourage asset speculation, including speculation in necessities.
(2) a tariff on "third-world" goods to reflect the disparity in environmental regulation and labor rules -- currently, the de-facto minimum wage in the US is $1 or $2 per hour if you count manufacturing abroad.
(3) to encourage automation so that skilled domestic workers at $20/hr and their robots can replace ten Chinese bio-robots at $1 or $2 per hour.
(4) a shift away from a consumerist attitude -- do we really need an iToy every year? -- and towards one that supports education, research, and enjoyment of life.
Exactly.
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
...
Maybe, but it also could be argued that industry would eliminate jobs whenever possible no matter what the pay is.
How many employees do you keep on the payroll for whom you have too little work?
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2013, 08:14 AM
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In CT we've heard the clamor for a living wage, fast food workers in some of our cities staged a walk out last week protesting the need for $15/hr. There are some employees that aren't worth the CT minimum of $8.25/hr. My 16 yo son, who starts working for me a few days/wk after school this week, would be a good example along with most high school students looking for jobs. He'll start off pushing a broom, stacking boxes, helping load trucks, performing other menial tasks around the warehouse. It pays $8.25/hr. because the state requires us to pay that for a job that requires little more than a warm body and the ability to follow simple instructions. My kid may be in over his head.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2013, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
How many employees do you keep on the payroll for whom you have too little work?
True, but if you have more customers with more money to spend . . .
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  #24  
Old 12-16-2013, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
In CT we've heard the clamor for a living wage, fast food workers in some of our cities staged a walk out last week protesting the need for $15/hr. There are some employees that aren't worth the CT minimum of $8.25/hr. My 16 yo son, who starts working for me a few days/wk after school this week, would be a good example along with most high school students looking for jobs. He'll start off pushing a broom, stacking boxes, helping load trucks, performing other menial tasks around the warehouse. It pays $8.25/hr. because the state requires us to pay that for a job that requires little more than a warm body and the ability to follow simple instructions. My kid may be in over his head.
In regards to the fast food walkout, I heard a report that in Chicago IL less than twenty percent of those that showed up for the walkout were fast food workers. The majority of them were paid by the SEIU union to show up for a day. The big push there is to increase union membership and dues paid to the unions, not to increase wages for the workers.
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  #25  
Old 12-16-2013, 09:43 AM
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Prices seem always upwards in general during our lifetime in Canada. Similar in the states I suspect. We as a household may or may not represent a particularily good cross section of the current society.

If a person works forty hours a week and cannot sustain themselves on that income with no excesses in their geographical area. For example if rents or housing costs alone are taking too large a percentage of their earnings is unavoidable.

On the east coast of Canada 1/2 to 3/4 of the income of hot spots like The Toronto area should give an almost equal quality of life. So a minumin wage should not be pretty consistant across all the provinces and states to start with.

What is very strange to me is that minumin wages are higher on the east coast of Canada than in the much more expensive areas. Plus most of the states if not all as well. It is almost like the economic hotter areas are filled with slave labour in comparison.

Although all levels of government are out there in full force to increase living costs in our area to citizens as well. More and more regulations have that nasty side effect. My feeling is all the average guy can do is go along for the ride.

When you get older like myself you do reflect upon things of this nature in comparison to yesterdays. Today it is common to spend the total cost of our first house in a period of a few months. It may very well be the only way our system can function at all. Endless heavy inflation disguised in so many ways.

So it would be totally unreasonable to not think wages should be seriously upgraded as well. When I look back on my fathers time there is absolutely no comparison anymore. He paid about one month of our retirement income for the family house. A week of the current income level for a new car. Total food costs where probably not much more than we spend on milk alone today.

There is also no way the country can probably afford this but then the governments are doing a lot of things that are really unaffordable in the broad scheme of things as well. Small business like the so called middle class will suffer the most from all this I suspect. It looks like a good set up for wealth to become further concentrated over time. Unless it all is a house of cards that comes tumbling down.
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  #26  
Old 12-16-2013, 10:55 AM
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Has anyone thought of supply and demand and the size of the labor force? What does that have to do with our national immigration policy?

When I was young only the high school students were fast food workers and they do not need a living wage. It's training for the real world which comes later after you complete some more education of some type.

Not sure you called out plumbers... but they average more than $15 an hour.
Journeymen in cities such as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Boston ... up to about $250,000 a year.
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  #27  
Old 12-16-2013, 11:50 AM
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*Up to* $250,000 per year, likely in rare cases. Nationally, your links say $46-48k per year.
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  #28  
Old 12-16-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
*Up to* $250,000 per year, likely in rare cases. Nationally, your links say $46-48k per year.
Yeah, if you want more money like the $250K you start a plumbing business and make more. However as a worker ... the top 25 percent of plumbers averaged $64,790, and the top 10 percent averaged $82,310. Master plumbers would typically fall into the higher percentages.

Why can't the average joe become a plumber instead of the having a minimum wage job, Spdrun?
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  #29  
Old 12-16-2013, 01:00 PM
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More money or more votes for the politician?



The Asian American Hotel Owners Association and the Korean American Hotel Owners Association oppose Proposition 1. ... raising the minimum wage, consider the mom-and-pop restaurants in the Chinatown International District operating on wafer-thin margins. Consider the many Korean-owned convenience stores throughout Seattle. The city has already pushed some businesses off the edge with the sick-leave policy, and the ban on plastic bags and plastic food containers.
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  #30  
Old 12-16-2013, 01:06 PM
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Why can't the average joe become a plumber instead of the having a minimum wage job, Spdrun?
The union-parasites aka guilds control entry into the profession for one thing... which is why you have plenty of "plumbers" working under the table for $10-15/hr.

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