Could be anything. You are simply speculating because, as you irrelevantly pointed out, he is a jerk. I have no way of plugging a device into a diagnostic port in his head to see what was going on. Until science can prove he did it, I think we kinda agreed on the "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

I don't know if he did or didn't. What you seem to try to negate is this: Did Ward engage in reckless conduct that brought about his death? To that, I'd have to say he did. As to whether Stewart did or not, I'm not 100% sure of his motives unless he confesses. I'm not even sure beyond reasonable doubt that he did.

Again, anything is possible. Provable is another story.

Nothing hard about it. He is saying what needs to be said at this time. As Shakespeare already said "All the world's a stage.....".

Denial of what? That you have no real proof of anything beyond the fact you don't like him and thus his guilt?

Your point? Ward did something unsafe and it ended up in his death. Who else contributed to it has yet to be proven.

Not only can you read Stewart's mind you can read the mind of a corpse by looking at the face? But lets say you can, not that I believe you for a moment, you walk onto that track and your life is forfeit whether you are in a car or walking on the track.

And you know this, how? First thing my motorcycle instructor told me is "You are invisible". His explaination is that while we are seen, there are many accidents where the driver "didn't see". Real or not, IDK. Apparently I am not the face reader you are so I don't know.

What is? That you are so certain when forensic science isn't?

You seem to have some sort of clairvoyance to be able to discern things that investigators don't know yet. Wish they had you running all investigations. You can save them much money in laboratory testings by looking. There is NO science that has proven him guilty yet of anything but the capacity to be a jerk. If you had evidence, please, show it to us and the DA.

All the same. Just another competition. Maybe you can run faster than me, maybe not. Maybe your car is faster, maybe not. Maybe you can throw that weight farther, maybe not. Maybe you can .....;.

More nonsense. Investigators are limited to what they can prove in a court of law. Stewart may come out okay on that one, but I predict he will do much worse in the court of public opinion. And is that just because of an army of nimrods like myself who think they are clairvoyant?

I don't think so. All this talk about how it's so hard to control these cars is so much crap. Stewart is an acknowledged expert at controlling the movement of these cars. Look at the Slow Mo video. Just as the front of his car is going past Ward, his car fishtailed to the right. And that was before Ward did his thing of grabbing the wing so he could steal Stewart's decals, or something. It then fishtailed back and forth a little bit. Also look at where Stewart's car ends up after he passes Ward compared to where it was before he started. I'm sorry, something happened there and it was far from honorable. This is more than mere opinion, this is demonstrable fact.

Regarding Ward's behavior, please, this has been gone over 100 times. That sort of thing doesn't happen in NASCAR, but it does happen in sprint races. All Stewart had to do was idle by like the car in front of him, well in front of him, he had plenty of time to react. Instead he gooses the engine. Oh but you see, he had to do that to help steer the car. Uh-huh.

The thing is, as far as the court of public opinion goes, I think Stewart will be ok. So far, it seems like in every conversation I've been party to in which this incident is being discussed, "the public" is largely of the opinion that Ward was an idiot for walking out on to the track and attempting to confront Stewart's car. There is some debate about how much Stewart did or could have done differently, but it seems everyone agrees that Ward has the greatest share of the blame, as none of this would have happened if he hadn't gone out on to the track trying to pick a fight with a car.

MV

^It is difficult not to blame Ward, who appears not so much a victim but using shall we say very bad judgement.

The rules of this kind of racing need serious revision to suspend and fine people if they walk across the race track for any reason but to escape to the nearest side. The organizers should be sued into oblivion for having lax rules that permit this entirely foreseeable kind of event to happen.

If a case can be made that Stewart contributed to the fatality, he should be suspended or expelled from the sport, if not motor sports in general. Otherwise it will push the sport to become ever more a form of blood lust, where some openly want to see others killed.

Lastly, clearly they need more high resolution cameras.

He is racing. If it were me, I'd try avoid the obstacles but not lose time. Ward's stupidity doomed him. Doesn't mean anyone should suffer because of his poor actions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, under a yellow flag, drivers are prohibited from passing or advancing their position. Same thing I guess.

Kinney stated that it's common for drivers to do what Ward did. My buddy says he sees it all the time.

NASCAR is just now formally banning the practice. Ironically, Stewart himself got major play for his display of anger regarding incidents in races:

NASCAR bans drivers from walking onto track, approaching other cars after accidents - NASCAR - Sporting News

Walking on the track is not real bright, yes, it's agreed. But it was during a yellow flag and Stewart surely was aware that such thing a thing might happen.

Regarding TW's remarks that Ward was obligated to let Stewart go in front of him on the first go round, the vid indicates he was doing exactly that. Before TS cut his wheel hard and took him out of the race.

I examined the much ballyhooed slo-mo vid carefully. Stewart's ass end was fishtailing to the right before War could possibly have grabbed the wing. I suspect he grabbed it as a way to avoid being hit, as the 700 hp rear tire was aiming at him.

Those here who have mocked me and my buddy for our POV are apparently unable to note where Stewart's car ended up after he spun Ward to the ground, or the gunning of the engine and the fishtailing. It is so GDed obvious that I am frankly dismayed that people deny it.

Stewart is a hothead and lost it. It will cost him.

Yeah, and if he'd joined the seminary and took a vow of walking and nothing else to get around this never would have happened. Stating the obvious for the umpteenth thousandth time.

But who knows, you may be right on that one, the bolded part. Dale Earnhardt was widely regarded as one of the dirtiest drivers ever and yet when he died, from the nation's reaction you'd think Mother Theresa had been set upon by Osama bin Laden while she was taking food to orphans.

Stewart is one seriously weird mo-fo IMO. Just obnoxious to everybody. Makes fun of sportscasters, etc. At the end of this vid regarding his helmet thowing incident was a weird exchange with a sportscaster ("I don't give a crap"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwc8obMmv7o

His helmet toss was not unlike Ward's attempt to show displeasure. Yes, Ward was on the track but dirt is slower than NASCAR under a yellow.

I think I already mentioned that I'm unfamiliar with either Tony Stewart or Kevin Ward, personally and professionally. I have no knowledge of their prior actions, attitudes, or activities. Tony Stewart might be a tremendous jerk for all I know. Or he might be a great guy. Never met him, never heard anything about him, the most I've ever seen of him is the pass of Kevin Ward's car, and then, of course the hitting of Kevin Ward.

Of Kevin Ward, I know just about the same. The difference being, in just that short video, I have seen Kevin Ward aggressively advance towards others, while making various gestures. And he did this in the middle of an active race track. Based solely on this evidence, I'd tend to come to the conclusion that Kevin Ward is:

A) Stupid (wandering into traffic)

and

B) Either aggressive, has problems with his temper, or his anger management skills.

Had Tony not hit Kevin, or better yet, if the video had stopped after the blue and white car went by, and someone had asked me my thoughts on what happened, I'd feel perfectly fine describing Kevin as some sort of idiot with a temper who wandered into traffic to pick fights with cars. But now, since he seems to have succeeded in his effort to attack someone in a moving vehicle (whatever his reasons were), am I supposed to change my opinion? Am I just supposed to side with him because he lost? He picked a fight. He was the aggressor.

He brought a Nomex suit to a car fight.

I'm not surprised at the outcome.

MV

From wiki, it just means "Local Caution". Not sure if it means much more.

Doesn't make it any less risky or that others will value your life if you don't, with all due respect to Kinny and your buddy. As they say "lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part".

And? It is banned today so woe betide anyone who does.

I'm aware of students crossing the street without looking at the oncoming traffic. Doesn't mean I am going to risk hitting the pole to avoid them.

Point? What has that got to do with anything? Are you trying to lump everything together?

You grab part of a car coming at you to avoid getting hurt? Seriously? :rolleyes:

Would your dismay include the officials who have yet to see things as clearly as you?

Don't know. Depends if he can recover quickly or not. Regardless, not my race team, not my money so either way works.

Winner quite often get forgiven for much. Still, I'd rank Dale higher than Bin ladin or MT. If I had to choose between the 3, Dale would come first.

Point being what? That we should hate him and try find a justification for conviction before any ruling is made because he is a jerk? You keep mentioning his antics like it has bearing.

Was the helmet tossed at himself? Ward did something dangerous which endangered other drivers. Thankfully, it is only him that died instead of someone else avoiding him.

The whole "sport" is a bit nutty. Stewart has demonstrated similar anger management skills. Both during previous events and on that night. If a person on the track was an unprecedented thing would be one thing. But like I said, it's common.

I give Stewart 50% of the blame. If not 60 to 70.

Looking at the slo mo, the rear of the car was sliding around towards him just as his body disappears from view. He could not have grabbed the wing at that point. You could see that he was trying to back-pedal when it happened. In the real time vid, you can see that it would have been difficult to get out of the way entirely. Yes, I could easily see grabbing the wing as a way to avoid the rear wheel.

Stewart clearly knocked him out of the race in the first go round. I'm sorry, it's obvious and 99% certain it was intentional. But Stewart didn't have the class to realize that the kid might be angry and let that go. He slipped up big time. It was assault with a deadly weapon.

LEOs might well be waiting for toxicology reports. This thing is not over. His goosing of the engine, his fishtailing, and his ending up well up on the track from where he started make it clear that he aimed the car at him. Piss on the puke. Small town fans are likely to boo him mercilessly.

http://www.ner.org/rr/wanna-flag-part-5-the-flags-and-what-they-mean

It isn't my interest but it isn't any less of a sport than any other just because I don't care a whit for it.

I see. That is because Stewart made Ward go out to the lane after missing a car and not returning to the safety areas. :rolleyes: