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-   -   Tony Stewart Runs over Competitor after altercation... Murder? Manslaughter? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/358480-tony-stewart-runs-over-competitor-after-altercation-murder-manslaughter.html)

TylerH860 08-10-2014 11:43 AM
Tony Stewart Runs over Competitor after altercation... Murder? Manslaughter?
 
Yikes...

Video: Tony Stewart Runs Over Driver During Confrontation, Killing Him

tbomachines 08-10-2014 11:45 AM
Pretty gruesome, tragic and completely avoidable.

spdrun 08-10-2014 12:19 PM
Neither murder nor manslaughter. A tragic accident, compounded by the guy who was hit running out onto a racetrack to wave his willy around. That's like running into traffic on a freeway.

Driving on loose surfaces isn't like street driving -- Stewart could have hit throttle to make his car turn away from the guy faster. Or he could have throttled up to spray Ward with dirt. Basically impossible to prove intent to kill or maim beyond a reasonable doubt.

If anything, this should be a wrongful death lawsuit. The sheriff is right in not launching a criminal investigation since a jury trial would be a waste of the county's money.

aklim 08-10-2014 12:22 PM
What was that guy doing on the track after crashing out? :confused:Looks like he deliberately walked onto the track even after another car missed him and still continued.

TheDon 08-10-2014 02:01 PM
He shouldn't have jumped out in the track. You can clearly see him jump out of the way of a white and blue car before Stewart came by.

gatorblue92 08-10-2014 02:08 PM
The guy was a dumbass. I know he was pissed he got wrecked but still.

aklim 08-10-2014 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 3371136)
He shouldn't have jumped out in the track. You can clearly see him jump out of the way of a white and blue car before Stewart came by.
I don't know what he was up to. What was he trying to achieve? Supposedly the car was revved up so we rear end kicks out to hit him. What would the motive be? Other guy was out of the race.

cmac2012 08-10-2014 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3371138)
I don't know what he was up to. What was he trying to achieve? Supposedly the car was revved up so we rear end kicks out to hit him. What would the motive be? Other guy was out of the race.
On the previous lap, Stewart passed him and clipped his front tire, making him spin out. One could imagine Ward thinking that he had intentionally hit him. After Ward jumped out, he was pointing and gesturing - looked angry, like he was accusing Stewart of uhhh, unethical behavior. You can see it was Stewart's car that hit his car, paint scheme is unique.

Skid Row Joe 08-10-2014 03:35 PM
Tragic.

The guy that was so tough in confronting Stewart's car, chickened out and was trying to get out of the way at the last second, but his temper couldn't get him out of the situation that he placed himself in by getting in front of Stewart's car. The guy got hiself killed, plain and simple.

cmac2012 08-10-2014 03:41 PM
He was a complete dumbass but I'm not ready to give Stewart a pass. I watched the part just before the collision (2nd, fatal) and I think I can hear the engine rev up while the guy is still standing. Very strange. Word I read is that there was bad blood between them.

tbomachines 08-10-2014 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3371165)
He was a complete dumbass but I'm not ready to give Stewart a pass. I watched the part just before the collision (2nd, fatal) and I think I can hear the engine rev up while the guy is still standing. Very strange. Word I read is that there was bad blood between them.

I imaging Stewart was probably trying to kick the back out and swing the car the other way since it was on dirt but he didn't do it in time.

kerry 08-10-2014 03:45 PM
Hard to tell from the video but it's not out of the question that Stewart attempted to spray him with some dirt and misjudged it. hard to prove though. Spent a lot of time in Canandaigua in my youth.

cmac2012 08-10-2014 03:47 PM
Very real possibility actually.

One thing is clear, there was some motor-head mania at play here. 'You hit my car man! Yer a scumbag dude, yer a -' BUMP!

Plenty more cars to be had. One body is all you get.

spdrun 08-10-2014 03:58 PM
Why not wait till everyone is done racing then punch his lights out? Practically, you won't win against a car going 60, though if you're 20, beating the crap out of a chubby guy over 40 might be easier.

Skippy 08-10-2014 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 3371177)
Why not wait till everyone is done racing then punch his lights out? Practically, you won't win against a car going 60, though if you're 20, beating the crap out of a chubby guy over 40 might be easier.
I was reading about this earlier thinking that's what Senna would have done.

Edit: Finally watched the video: Holy chit! Get that guy a Darwin Award.

aklim 08-10-2014 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 3371161)
Tragic.

The guy that was so tough in confronting Stewart's car, chickened out and was trying to get out of the way at the last second, but his temper couldn't get him out of the situation that he placed himself in by getting in front of Stewart's car. The guy got hiself killed, plain and simple.
Do stupid things and you get killed is one thing but for me to call that tragic, it would require more than that. It would be tragic if the accident caused him to die but after the accident, going out onto the track was just begging for something bad to happen. Hard for me to call that tragic.

aklim 08-10-2014 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3371165)
He was a complete dumbass but I'm not ready to give Stewart a pass. I watched the part just before the collision (2nd, fatal) and I think I can hear the engine rev up while the guy is still standing. Very strange. Word I read is that there was bad blood between them.
Not sure exactly whether he revved it up to move around and was inconsiderate, tried to spray dirt and it went wrong or actually made a run for Ward. When the forensics come out, it will show, I suspect. Should Stewart be given a pass? No, but we can't really be sure till we know the facts nor should we just hang Stewart till we know for sure.

aklim 08-10-2014 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 3371177)
Why not wait till everyone is done racing then punch his lights out? Practically, you won't win against a car going 60, though if you're 20, beating the crap out of a chubby guy over 40 might be easier.
Dunno if he is as tough as you and can simply intimidate the person of his choice into curling up in a ball and letting him hit away. I don't get physical unless I have to so I will defer to you on that but I suspect that someone you hit could get up and do some damage. Besides, it could be a career suicide move for a nobody to whack someone much higher up in the food chain. The only difference between what happened and what you suggest is that one kills his career and the other, in this case, took his life. Both stupid.

JB3 08-10-2014 10:59 PM
impossible to tell from that vid anything about stewarts intentions, angle is all wrong. dumbass kid running around on a dirt track at night in a black suit. how stupid can you get. chances are stewart saw him late.

also im not sure i saw contact in the beginning for the cause of the wreck

aklim 08-10-2014 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 3371279)
Wrong. -It wasn't an "accident."

The meathead, with forethought and malice, charged Stewart's car, (watch the video) then was desperately trying to get out of the way when he saw his a** was going to get hit by the car he was rushing. That was not an "accident," as you put it. That was a willful attack and a malicious deed rushing Stewart's car. He must've been too stoopid to realize his deed was going to get hiself killed. I would surmise that he thought that he could do battle with Stewart, via proxy charging Stewart's car. The guy was wearing black, a helmet, and charged a race car. Stewart, OR ANY DRIVER, had no reasonable expectation to even think his race car would be rushed by a man in black, Tony had just enough time to think; WTF?! then boom, it was over. Just tragic.
But how is it tragic?

cmac2012 08-11-2014 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 3371279)
Wrong. -It wasn't an "accident."

The meathead, with forethought and malice, charged Stewart's car, (watch the video) then was desperately trying to get out of the way when he saw his a** was going to get hit by the car he was rushing. That was not an "accident," as you put it. That was a willful attack and a malicious deed rushing Stewart's car. He must've been too stoopid to realize his deed was going to get hiself killed. I would surmise that he thought that he could do battle with Stewart, via proxy charging Stewart's car. The guy was wearing black, a helmet, and charged a race car. Stewart, OR ANY DRIVER, had no reasonable expectation to even think his race car would be rushed by a man in black, Tony had just enough time to think; WTF?! then boom, it was over. Just tragic.

What, did the camera have night vision lenses? The camera saw him pretty well. I think he probably meant to spray dirt but wasn't as good at it as he thought.

This could be an answer to a physics question: what happens when two hotheads collide?

t walgamuth 08-11-2014 06:57 AM
Too bad this happened. Tony has been a big supporter of Sprint car racing which in recent years has suffered from some malaise.

JamesDean 08-11-2014 12:25 PM
Can we say Tony revved his engine? I mean the video was taken from the stands on another area of the track. Would there not have been cars nearer to the camera than Tony's?

cmac2012 08-11-2014 01:28 PM
The movement of his car, the fishtail action, seems to match the engine noise.

DieselPaul 08-11-2014 01:33 PM
Nothing legal will become of this and the civil suit will settle out of court.

Kid should have never gotten out of the car.

cmac2012 08-11-2014 01:59 PM
Agree that it's highly doubtful any legal action will take place. The bigger question for me is how will the public and sponsors react to this? I don't think Stewart comes out of this smelling like a rose.

link 08-11-2014 02:11 PM
Tragic accident. The victim most likely suffered an overdose of impact induced adrenalin leading to fatally bad judgment.

How many people have been hit by another vehicle and that caused a form of rage? That appears to be the sequence of events.

spdrun 08-11-2014 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3371259)
Dunno if he is as tough as you and can simply intimidate the person of his choice into curling up in a ball and letting him hit away. I don't get physical unless I have to so I will defer to you on that but I suspect that someone you hit could get up and do some damage. Besides, it could be a career suicide move for a nobody to whack someone much higher up in the food chain. The only difference between what happened and what you suggest is that one kills his career and the other, in this case, took his life. Both stupid.
Point being, that if Ward has saved it for the pits, he'd still be alive.

cmac2012 08-11-2014 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by link (Post 3371498)
Tragic accident. The victim most likely suffered an overdose of impact induced adrenalin leading to fatally bad judgment.

How many people have been hit by another vehicle and that caused a form of rage? That appears to be the sequence of events.
I don't think anybody disputes that. The question is what sort of rage induced faulty judgment did Stewart engage in? Or not engage in.

link 08-11-2014 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3371506)
I don't think anybody disputes that. The question is what sort of rage induced faulty judgment did Stewart engage in? Or not engage in.
^Thank you captain obvious.

There was no event malfeasance on Stewart's part. Some will project whatever they want to believe. If Stewart has a competent PR man it will be forgotten in a week or 2.

Crap happens on race courses and only insanely and stupidly bad judgment would motivate anyone to put themself in traffic on foot. It's world class stupid to do so on a dirt track.

aklim 08-11-2014 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3371491)
Agree that it's highly doubtful any legal action will take place. The bigger question for me is how will the public and sponsors react to this? I don't think Stewart comes out of this smelling like a rose.
Might not be anything at all since there is no real proof that he purposely hit him. Had he not gone on to the middle of the track and Stewart purposely swerved to hit him, it looks bad but this is kinda leaves it up in the air. We can't expect Stewart to purposely swerve and miss him in spite of Ward's stupidity and endanger himself. I wonder if they have a way to recreate that incident on computers so they can tell what actually happened.

aklim 08-11-2014 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 3371504)
Point being, that if Ward has saved it for the pits, he'd still be alive.
Point being that would have also killed his career or hobble it some. Considering that you only have a limited time to make hay while the sun shines, it might be more wise to avoid that. Even if he had hit Stewart, what would it accomplish? A punishment from the sanctioning board?

Here is a crazy idea. Forward the recording to the sanctioning board with your complain. You'd look good, avoid a civil lawsuit and possibly criminal one and avoid punishments from the sanctioning board of the sport. And if you have a case, maybe might get something done. All hitting him accomplishes is making him look like the victim and gets you into trouble. Sure, a career death is not as bad as physical death but how is EITHER a good idea? Both are dumb.

aklim 08-11-2014 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3371506)
I don't think anybody disputes that. The question is what sort of rage induced faulty judgment did Stewart engage in? Or not engage in.
Question is what rage? Assuming he did it purposely, he'd have knocked Ward out of the race. Did ward hit him first where there was rage involved on his part? Didn't see it in the video but maybe it is a case of "you hit me first".

spdrun 08-11-2014 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3371578)
Point being that would have also killed his career or hobble it some.
Maybe, maybe not. All publicity is good publicity, so long as you're alive. Bad publicity still beats death in any case.

t walgamuth 08-11-2014 04:33 PM
The videos are so blurry that I cannot see any swerving of any sort of Tony's car at time of impact...nor sound of engine revving....just looks like the other car ahead of tony swerved and apparently Tony did not see him and did not swerve to miss the fellow on the track.

aklim 08-11-2014 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 3371583)
Maybe, maybe not. All publicity is good publicity, so long as you're alive.

Bad publicity still beats death in any case.
I wouldn't go that far with that adage. I would guess that good publicity is more desirable than bad but that is my guess.

True but the point is why go with either of those 2 options? He wasn't having a gun to his head to chose either.

Idle 08-11-2014 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 3371161)
Tragic.

The guy that was so tough in confronting Stewart's car, chickened out and was trying to get out of the way at the last second, but his temper couldn't get him out of the situation that he placed himself in by getting in front of Stewart's car. The guy got hiself killed, plain and simple.
Yup. His ego got the better of him. Maybe he was not thinking clearly, but every mother has told her child about the dangers of playing in the traffic. I hate to be harsh but trying to stop a speeding car with your body is not a well thought out plan.

aklim 08-11-2014 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle (Post 3371608)
Yup. His ego got the better of him. Maybe he was not thinking clearly, but every mother has told her child about the dangers of playing in the traffic. I hate to be harsh but trying to stop a speeding car with your body is not a well thought out plan.
Maybe but he can be a lesson of "what not to do" to other's

Skid Row Joe 08-11-2014 08:41 PM
As a young buck I'm certain that Ward was emulating the now all too famous NASCAR drivers that "git out yer crashed race car on-the-race-track syndrome, and go tumble with the guy who wrecked you out!"


If his tragic death meant anything, I think the racing community will enter the 20th Century in making this stupid 'git out yer car' fightin' behavior taboo.

Stoney 08-11-2014 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerH860 (Post 3371109)
Rule 1- NEVER get out of the car when it is on the track. That is what the Yellow flag/Light is for.
Rule 2 - Save it for the pits. Argue, Spit, Swing..but do it IN THE PITS!

The kid was a local hero. It was his local track and he was being done in in front of his fans. Clay tracks are like driving on marbles. In racing you are going to get hit, not if but when, it is a fact of racing. Some nights you win, some nights you don't.

But getting out of the car and standing on the track in traffic is pure stupidity.

INSIDIOUS 08-11-2014 09:48 PM
First, his original meeting with the wall seems to be Wards own fault, he was trying to overtake and there wasn't enough room, and it is not even for sure the two vehicles made contact.

If you enlarge and frame by frame the body contact it looks as if he was aside and trying to grab - and the rear step out was away from the hit trying to avoid it.

Seems Ward went out in youthful ignorance to settle a score not owed him and taking on a vehicle is just nuts.

aklim 08-11-2014 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 3371687)
As a young buck I'm certain that Ward was emulating the now all too famous NASCAR drivers that "git out yer crashed race car on-the-race-track syndrome, and go tumble with the guy who wrecked you out!"


If his tragic death meant anything, I think the racing community will enter the 20th Century in making this stupid 'git out yer car' fightin' behavior taboo.
How is it tragic? You do something stupid and you die. Sorry, no sympathy here. As to this taboo thing, maybe it will make it more interesting.

aklim 08-11-2014 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney (Post 3371717)
The kid was a local hero. It was his local track and he was being done in in front of his fans.
Nope. It is NOT your track. You won a few races there but that won't make it yours. Somedays, you beat others, some days, others beat you. You got no dibs on the track.

cmac2012 08-11-2014 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3371588)
The videos are so blurry that I cannot see any swerving of any sort of Tony's car at time of impact...nor sound of engine revving....just looks like the other car ahead of tony swerved and apparently Tony did not see him and did not swerve to miss the fellow on the track.
I dunno, maybe you're looking at fuzzier version of it but I can clearly see some fishtail action that looks like more than what the rig would do hitting a body, especially with the sound of the engine being goosed in perfect timing with the fishtail. Don't know what happened but it sure looks fishy.

P.C. 08-11-2014 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 3371687)
As a young buck I'm certain that Ward was emulating the now all too famous NASCAR drivers that "git out yer crashed race car on-the-race-track syndrome, and go tumble with the guy who wrecked you out!"


If his tragic death meant anything, I think the racing community will enter the 20th Century in making this stupid 'git out yer car' fightin' behavior taboo.
Then they'll still be a century behind the times.

aklim 08-11-2014 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3371744)
I dunno, maybe you're looking at fuzzier version of it but I can clearly see some fishtail action that looks like more than what the rig would do hitting a body, especially with the sound of the engine being goosed in perfect timing with the fishtail. Don't know what happened but it sure looks fishy.
But how to prove that he intended to fishtail it to hit Ward? That is going to be difficult seeing as how Ward purposely put himself in the line of traffic. As I said, if he was clearly off track and Stewart swerved to hit him, no contest. Could he have controlled the fishtail to hit Ward? Possible. Could it be argued that he fishtailed in a surprise to Ward's action? Possible.

That said, we did have a silly notion concerning "beyond reasonable doubt" so how to say that there is no reasonable doubt to a person's reaction to an unreasonable action by another (walking on the track during a race)? Short of Stewart confessing, I'm not sure how to determine the reason for the fishtail.

aklim 08-11-2014 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.C. (Post 3371751)
Then they'll still be a century behind the times.
First off, this isn't NASCAR but what all the animosity towards NASCAR? It's just another sport like any other. Could be NFL, NBA, NHRA, whatever. Just a sport as far as I can see. I admit I don't watch it myself but I can't understand all the animosity towards it.

cmac2012 08-12-2014 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by link (Post 3371514)
^Thank you captain obvious.

There was no event malfeasance on Stewart's part. Some will project whatever they want to believe. If Stewart has a competent PR man it will be forgotten in a week or 2.

Crap happens on race courses and only insanely and stupidly bad judgment would motivate anyone to put themself in traffic on foot. It's world class stupid to do so on a dirt track.
Event malfeasance? Who talks like that? Look at the guy who passed him before Stewart hit him. He was coasting well inside and away from the young fool. The goosing of the engine was just too weird. Add to that, I think Stewart looks like a blowhard dick. Unscientific as hell but oh well.

And once more, yes the young guy was a fool squared. It is his folly that will give Stewart a break for his own over-reaction, IMHO.

link 08-12-2014 09:14 AM
Quote:
I think Stewart looks like a blowhard dick.
I agree you think that as you wrote it.

You can look at what happened or what you want to think happened. The difference directs the conclusion.

aklim 08-12-2014 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3371768)
Add to that, I think Stewart looks like a blowhard dick. Unscientific as hell but oh well.

And once more, yes the young guy was a fool squared. It is his folly that will give Stewart a break for his own over-reaction, IMHO.
Not only unscientific but highly subject to opinion and guessing. Regardless, what has it got to do with deliberately running someone over? You can't pin everything on a guy because he behaves like a jerk or even looks like one.

We don't know there was over reaction yet. Not even the investigation has revealed that. Not saying he is guilty since we don't know what the investigation found or that he has a trial yet and can't read that from his face.


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