House Fire Update-Day 143 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

SwampYankee · #1 10-13-2014, 11:05 AM

Nothing structurally has changed since Day 81! The house looks largely the same.

There were a couple heat vent ducts that ran from the basement to the second floor (PO had a wood stove in the basement at one time so I'm guessing they were from that since there are/were radiators and baseboards throughout the house) that were coated with asbestos. Abatement happened on day 123.

On Day 124 we had our Historic District Commission hearing for approval on our addition design and replacement windows. I don't think having the 3 most vocal commissioners out of the 7 on the board as long-time customers hurt. I'm not saying the design wouldn't normally have been approved, just that the approval was surprisingly straight-forward with virtually no concessions. That's generally not the case and it wasn't because of our contractor's stellar preparation.

Building and Zoning won't issue a building permit until the plans pass HDC approval. Of course, B&Z moves at its own pace as well so here we are 10 days later. Just waiting on the permit...

The second floor will be gutted and the rooms reconfigured with the addition so the four kids will each have their own room and there will be a bathroom with a nice size shower. On the first floor the addition will house our bedroom plus a small mudroom off the back of the house before entering the kitchen. The current den area will be combined with the new space to allow for an office area and closet space, which was non-existent before. The first floor full bath will be reconfigured so that there can be access both from our new "suite" and the hallway through separate doors. It'll be nice not to have to streak through the house after showering.

In all we'll be adding about 672 sq.ft. of finished space (about 50% of our current square footage) with a full basement that I've got plans for in the future but will be left alone for now. I think it'll be a good compromise for us. This will give us just enough room for everyone to have their private space and have a little extra room for entertaining. We'll be staying here in perpetuity so everything on the first floor will make that much easier when we reach old fart stage.

All we need is for progress to actually begin.

As of right now, insurance will be ceasing housing lease payments on 11/30 with a month-to-month basis after that. I'm hoping the 71 days until the first structural settlement came, the damaged windows needing HDC approval and the asbestos removal on day 123, which was covered under the original settlement, will buy us at least a couple more additional months of rent. If it was the addition alone that was the hold up we'd probably have been cut-off by now.

Just to add to the joy, the Mrs. had her second significant ankle surgery last Thursday in an attempt to repair damage from a severe sprain back in '10. Non-weight bearing for six weeks and then PT starts. What's one more thing?

barry12345 · #2 10-13-2014, 03:12 PM

Some regulations serve the common good. Others once enacted take on a life of their own by those that administer them. It usually never pays for me to evaluate what is going on.

My latest one I ran into once again tries to make something personally very easy to understand very complex and expensive. It is hard to believe that the people administering the process are totally brainwashed.

There is no longer any doubt they are though. I really believe the concept that power corrupts or stupidity prevails in some situations is a reality.

With absolutely no hands on experience or the resultant knowledge from it of what works and what does not. In combination with trying to cover their posteriors from a liability perspective. I could laugh about it if it was not so bad of a situation.

Being nice and agreeable with them gets you just spending more money. I try to get along with everyone but to no avail with some of these clowns. What is even worse is the discussions they initiate with me about function. Tells me they just do not really know.

Almost everyone else is afraid of them. They love nothing better than changing things. Usually just copying things from other juristictions without much thought. If it does not work out they have no liability.

t walgamuth · #3 10-13-2014, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Nothing structurally has changed since Day 81! The house looks largely the same.

There were a couple heat vent ducts that ran from the basement to the second floor (PO had a wood stove in the basement at one time so I'm guessing they were from that since there are/were radiators and baseboards throughout the house) that were coated with asbestos. Abatement happened on day 123.

On Day 124 we had our Historic District Commission hearing for approval on our addition design and replacement windows. I don't think having the 3 most vocal commissioners out of the 7 on the board as long-time customers hurt. I'm not saying the design wouldn't normally have been approved, just that the approval was surprisingly straight-forward with virtually no concessions. That's generally not the case and it wasn't because of our contractor's stellar preparation.

Building and Zoning won't issue a building permit until the plans pass HDC approval. Of course, B&Z moves at its own pace as well so here we are 10 days later. Just waiting on the permit...

The second floor will be gutted and the rooms reconfigured with the addition so the four kids will each have their own room and there will be a bathroom with a nice size shower. On the first floor the addition will house our bedroom plus a small mudroom off the back of the house before entering the kitchen. The current den area will be combined with the new space to allow for an office area and closet space, which was non-existent before. The first floor full bath will be reconfigured so that there can be access both from our new "suite" and the hallway through separate doors. It'll be nice not to have to streak through the house after showering.

In all we'll be adding about 672 sq.ft. of finished space (about 50% of our current square footage) with a full basement that I've got plans for in the future but will be left alone for now. I think it'll be a good compromise for us. This will give us just enough room for everyone to have their private space and have a little extra room for entertaining. We'll be staying here in perpetuity so everything on the first floor will make that much easier when we reach old fart stage.

All we need is for progress to actually begin.

As of right now, insurance will be ceasing housing lease payments on 11/30 with a month-to-month basis after that. I'm hoping the 71 days until the first structural settlement came, the damaged windows needing HDC approval and the asbestos removal on day 123, which was covered under the original settlement, will buy us at least a couple more additional months of rent. If it was the addition alone that was the hold up we'd probably have been cut-off by now.

Just to add to the joy, the Mrs. had her second significant ankle surgery last Thursday in an attempt to repair damage from a severe sprain back in '10. Non-weight bearing for six weeks and then PT starts. What's one more thing?

Sounds like you are on your way! I am impressed the insurance company is working with you so well.

ramonajim · #4 10-13-2014, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Sounds like you are on your way! I am impressed the insurance company is working with you so well.

Wow. If that is your definition of "working with you so well" I'd REALLY hate to live through your customer service horror stories!

barry12345 · #5 10-13-2014, 06:48 PM

I think and hope the poster is getting more than he originally thought he would out of the insurance company. This is better than what I suspect they originally where trying. Worth the delays.

Many of these cases do not seem to move very fast unfortunately. I suspect gutting the second floor opened the insurance company up to meeting total current codes for the whole house as a repair. Or at least all the portion of the existing house that is not a new addition. At least I hope something like this transpired.

Insurance premiums are high historically because their exposure has over time been increased. At one time they could get away with a lot more short cutting.

It would not surprise me if there had been a meeting between the insurance company and local juristictions wthout the property owners awareness if things are happening he did not expect.

SwampYankee · #6 10-14-2014, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Sounds like you are on your way! I am impressed the insurance company is working with you so well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramonajim

Wow. If that is your definition of "working with you so well" I'd REALLY hate to live through your customer service horror stories!

It's been excruciatingly slow, although it's not all on the insurance company. It's the whole process and the insurance company.

And just to clarify, none of the addition will be covered by the settlement money. Any money we save, like putting up sheet rock instead of replacing plaster and lath, will just go towards the depreciation gap. We haven't had any major issues with the $$$ per se.

On the plus side, I do have a new breaker panel that's about 3 feet tall with enough slots for like 657 circuits.

Again, code upgrades aren't covered.

(I apologize for the crappy iPhone pic in total darkness)

Quite an improvement over this!

JB3 · #7 10-14-2014, 07:56 AM

Wow, your place still had active knob and tube before the fire?
Thats the biggest breaker box i think ive ever seen in a residential structure, was that a 200amp panel?

SwampYankee · #8 10-14-2014, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

I think and hope the poster is getting more than he originally thought he would out of the insurance company. This is better than what I suspect they originally where trying. Worth the delays.

Many of these cases do not seem to move very fast unfortunately. I suspect gutting the second floor opened the insurance company up to meeting total current codes for the whole house as a repair. Or at least all the portion of the existing house that is not a new addition. At least I hope something like this transpired.

Insurance premiums are high historically because their exposure has over time been increased. At one time they could get away with a lot more short cutting.

It would not surprise me if there had been a meeting between the insurance company and local juristictions wthout the property owners awareness if things are happening he did not expect.

We're certainly not getting more out of them, I guess it's about as expected.

I got the policy 17 years ago when we bought the house and were first-time expecting parents. The details of the policy weren't at the top of our mind at the time. Prudent individuals would have taken a look at the policy over the years to reassess it. Back then I was too into the "now" to look ahead. I think most would consider our coverage to be good, it's been the amount of time that elapses between issues that's been the most aggravating. There has been almost 3 cumulative months of waiting on them alone, 71 days right out of the gate.

They've been very responsive as far as temporary housing goes, my concern with that is the looming deadline for the rent payments to stop. It's not a firm date, it can be extended at the adjuster's discretion on a month-to-month basis. It's just the knowledge that at some point they're going to stop paying for the rental and it will likely be before our house is ready to be occupied. I suspect that I can negotiate our landlord down considerably if we need to stay there an extra month or two beyond what insurance will pay for.

We knew everything was going to have to be brought up to code before they lifted a hammer or crowbar so that wasn't a surprise, and we welcome that. That those costs would be on us wasn't exactly known (again, had I gone over the policy over the years...) but those costs are less than $5K so in the grand scheme of things they aren't significant. State and local codes in CT are pretty tight. It is certainly the local Building and Zoning calling the shots whether the insurance company is involved in the discussion or not. And since the policy doesn't pay for any code upgrades, which are required by B&Z, I'm not sure there'd be any need for the insurance company and the local commissions to meet. Even it they did, it wouldn't explain the delays.

SwampYankee · #9 10-14-2014, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

Wow, your place still had active knob and tube before the fire?
Thats the biggest breaker box i think ive ever seen in a residential structure, was that a 200amp panel?

Oh yeah! The kitchen and the laundry were the only parts of the house on circuit breakers and new wiring, the rest was all knob and tube with screw-in fuses. I'd bet most of the houses in our 'hood are still at least partially knob and tube.

To be honest with you I don't even know but it probably is. I did tell them I wanted to be able to run my compressor in the garage, which I've never been able to do.

t walgamuth · #10 10-14-2014, 10:09 AM

YOur knob and tube wiring looked in great condition!

BobK · #11 10-14-2014, 10:25 AM

I still remember checking out the circuits in my grandmother's house. She had two twenty wiring.....as in TWO 20 amp screw in fuses. 110vac entering the house. Cannot imagine how the whole house ran on that. Gravity furnace, no A/C, gas stove and water heater, lights, maybe a toaster and that's it.
You are probably lucky the house didn't burn years ago. Modern loads on that old wiring is frightening.

SwampYankee · #12 10-14-2014, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

YOur knob and tube wiring looked in great condition!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobK

I still remember checking out the circuits in my grandmother's house. She had two twenty wiring.....as in TWO 20 amp screw in fuses. 110vac entering the house. Cannot imagine how the whole house ran on that. Gravity furnace, no A/C, gas stove and water heater, lights, maybe a toaster and that's it.
You are probably lucky the house didn't burn years ago. Modern loads on that old wiring is frightening.

Still amazed that it wasn't the wiring. We'd have issues with the circuit breakers tripping in the kitchen on occasion, using toaster and microwave at the same time for example, but probably hadn't popped more than a handful of fuses for the rest of the house. I just replaced them with whatever size was in socket when we moved in. Which probably means they were actually 15 amp circuits with 20 amp fuses screwed into them.

BobK · #13 10-14-2014, 11:39 AM

Really fun part is where they splice in the circuits. Might have a 12 ga wire runing from the fuse along the rafters. Then they pull back the insulation and wrap the bare end of a wire around the stripped main line, covering it with tape. This wire then runs down to an outlet. No telling if they used 12 ga or went down to 14 ga for the drop. Easy way to overload a circuit. And those joints are a bit frightening. At least you didn't have any pennies in hte socket behind the fuse.

t walgamuth · #14 10-14-2014, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobK

Really fun part is where they splice in the circuits. Might have a 12 ga wire runing from the fuse along the rafters. Then they pull back the insulation and wrap the bare end of a wire around the stripped main line, covering it with tape. This wire then runs down to an outlet. No telling if they used 12 ga or went down to 14 ga for the drop. Easy way to overload a circuit. And those joints are a bit frightening. At least you didn't have any pennies in hte socket behind the fuse.

I would have said the knob and tube is generally 14 ga. to begin with.

SwampYankee · #15 10-14-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobK

Really fun part is where they splice in the circuits. Might have a 12 ga wire runing from the fuse along the rafters. Then they pull back the insulation and wrap the bare end of a wire around the stripped main line, covering it with tape. This wire then runs down to an outlet. No telling if they used 12 ga or went down to 14 ga for the drop. Easy way to overload a circuit. And those joints are a bit frightening. At least you didn't have any pennies in hte socket behind the fuse.

When we moved into the house there was an outlet, in what was our room at the time, that was 3' section of lamp cord between the main lines and the outlet. Fortunately it wasn't hidden since it was just behind a knee wall in our "attic" area so I just eliminated it. Given the hackery the PO performed, it wouldn't surprise me if the demo crew found some interesting wiring "solutions" along the way.

Even I wouldn't use pennies in the sockets.

My father's house, which is roughly the same vintage, has a modern (20 years ago) service entrance and breaker panel along with new wiring up to the point where the wires enter the wall, where it reverts back to knob and tube in the original part of the house.