Tug by the old Bill at 1am - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Bear · #1 05-12-2002, 08:29 PM

Just had a tug by the local old Bill(translated to american english just been stopped by local police)They were ever so friendly apparently they were just picking motors at random to make sure they hadn't been nicked/stolen.Well it warms the cockles of my heart,to know the old Bill are still trying to prevent the theft of the older Merc's as well.Bear

Snibble · #2 05-12-2002, 08:35 PM

I don't think the police in the US can do that(stopping people at random to check to see if car is stolen). :p

Bear · #3 05-12-2002, 08:40 PM

Wouldn't you feel more secure if they did?The only folk who would worry are those that have got something to hide.If random stops cut down drunk driving and other crimes I'm right behind them.Bear

Billybob · #4 05-12-2002, 09:13 PM

That is the attitude that illustrates the fundamental difference between the people of the United States of America ,the land of the free and the home of the brave and every other society on the face of this earth. Our revolutionary society is based on the premise the government has a limited role to play in the lives of it's citizens and the individuals who are members of this society have not only the right but the obligation to be responsible for themselves.

The idea that everyone should abandon their right to liberty and be subject to random search by authorities in response to the problem of auto theft is repugnant to most. The circumstance where all should be made to suffer this lost of liberty and accepts the presumption on the part of authorities that anyone driving a car is a suspected car thief is intolerable. This patriarchal view of governance is the ideal that was completely rejected by force of arms in 1776.

We believe that the solution to such problems will come from the free market of ideas that flourishes in our political climate like no other in the world. No other that has existed, now exists, nor will in the future exist. The United States of America is the apotheosis of liberty, freedom and opportunity which is why oppressed people from around the globe flock here every day in numbers greater than all who attempt to enter Great Britain in any 10 years.

No, I for one would never feel more secure abdicating personal responsibility to government. Such "security" is a delusion embraced by the weak, that leads to the eventual failure of a culture and it's society. Without the energy and power of the freedom loving people of the United States of America, Great Britain would have been conquered and ceased to exist in 1941 and quickly become an obedient and complacent vassal of Hitler’s Reich as subjects are subjects regardless of there rulers!

ymsin · #5 05-12-2002, 10:39 PM

We have an occasional tug here where the police will check whether:
a. the driver's sober and not intoxicated or too happy;
b. the vehicle papers (road tax disc and insurance) are in order;
c. the driver is a serial traffic offender whose dues are not settled.

Sadly, there has been a few cases of blokes being pulled up by people pretending to be cops, and then robbing the victims of their Benz.

#6 05-13-2002, 01:31 AM

What's wrong with sobriety checkpoints? I never drive my Benz after I've been drinking. And no, it never has any illicit substances in it, either. My view is that "since I'm clean, I have nothing to worry about". I don't have anything in the car that's illegal, so what's the big deal?

This is analgous to the Swedes, who,when questioned about their rigourous "gun licensing" laws (that basically have one take a practical test and be on a six-month "probation period" before getting a firearm), stated "Well, we could drive cars without licensing....probably wouldn't be a good idea though."

(note-these quotes are from some newsmagazine, I can't remember which one, about 2 years ago).

-Sam

jjrodger · #7 05-13-2002, 02:43 AM

I'm with Billybob on this one. The police pulled up Bear not because they are concerned about thefts of older Benz's but because it's a damn sight easier to hassle motorists than chase burglars. There is a sign on a heavily policed section of road near me which states "554 caught speeding this month" (or however many it is). I feel like putting up a sign next to it saying "and how many burglars/muggers/rapists?". When you're doing absolutely nothing wrong, driving a well-maintained car and observing the traffic law, why should the police interfere? I bet they gave Bear a producer (an order to take your licence and insurance to a police station within 7 days)--more inconvenience.

And the UK government's obsession with drink driving/speeding is beginning to obscure the road safety message. It has recently been suggested that driving when tired is more dangerous than driving after a drink. The dumber UK motorist (and there are a lot of them, an awful lot) is beginning to think that as long as he is sober and doing bang on 70mph (the UK limit) he is a safe driver. No need to look where he is going, no need to consider the conditions, no need to do any signalling, above all no need to think, because he is sober and doing the speed limit, he must be safe.

We all know drink driving can be dangerous, but if driving were so difficult that it can't be done after one or two drinks, why do the authorities give a driving licence to any halfwit who wants one?

Bear · #8 05-13-2002, 06:44 PM

Actually JJ I didn't receive a producer,I carry my licence as a matter of course.The guy's who pulled me were courteous and polite and at no time did I feel hassled in anyway.The only reason I posted this event was that I haven't had a tug since I was 19.Bear

#9 05-13-2002, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear
Wouldn't you feel more secure if they did?The only folk who would worry are those that have got something to hide.If random stops cut down drunk driving and other crimes I'm right behind them.Bear

Absolutely not. It has nothing to do with having anything to hide. In this country being stopped without a legal reason can be treated as harassment. We have a right to privacy. If the police want to check for a stolen vehicle, then they can run the plate while they travel behind the driver.

To answer your question, if I were to be stopped, for such a reason, they would likely get an earful from me, and then a written compaint by me to be entered into their permanent records the next morning.

#10 05-13-2002, 09:44 PM

Diesel Power,
I taught,here in the US,anybody can be
stopped by the authorities even w/out
probbable cause.

#11 05-14-2002, 02:30 AM

No, they cannot stop you unless you have either broken a traffic law, or have probable cause as a possible suspect in a crime (ie. car matches description).

You do NOT have to consent to a search of your vehicle, unless once again the officer can prove probable cause.

These types of issues are what the constitution protects us from. Of course, the law DOES try to get away with breaking these rules on a regular basis.

I have had an officer attempt to perform a search. A friend of ine and I were pulling into a small town on our way to West Texas for some 4 wheeling. Consequently, we were in my Samurai - even my 240D will outrun my Samurai. We had a GPS with us, and were comparing it to what my speedometer was reading. We dropped into a 55 mph zone, and I dropped to said speed. The speedometer and GPS were agreeing to within less than 1 mph. A state trooper, coming in the opposite direction, lit us up to pull us over. I, of course complied. When he walked up to my car, he found that I only rolled it down about 1 inch. The windows are also tinted on this car, making it difficult to see inside. He demanded that I roll the windows down, which I refused. He then at that point, had me step out of the car. To this, I complied. He did NOT get to search my vehicle as he had intended, and knew that I was not going to tolerate his actions. His excuse for the stop - doing 60 in a 55. To this excuse, I told him about our GPS agreeing with the 55 that my speedometer read.

If an officer EVER attempts to make you consent to a search, all you have to tell him is that your lawyer has stated that you do not have to consent to any search without probable cause, and you WILL sue if he presses the issue. The cop will get pissed, but too bad. They have rules that they need to abide by as well. Otherwise they are no better than the criminals that they are supposed to be out there to protect the public from.

mikemover · #12 05-14-2002, 03:08 AM

Billybob is right on the money with this one! Sacrificing personal liberty and privacy for a false sense of "security" is a grave mistake.

Every innocent citizen should have a "right to be left alone".

I am not a suspect just because I drive down the street !

Don't get me wrong...there is nothing inherently bad about cracking down on drunk driving, car theft, etc...But doing it at the expense of our personal freedoms is WRONG. "Big Brother" already has your license plate and registration information on file...they can run your plates and find out all they need to know about you and your car WITHOUT stopping you and harassing you. Random stops without probable cause, improper searches, and indiscriminate roadblocks should NOT be allowed in a free society, and should be prosecutable as harassment.

my 2 cents once again...
Mike

#13 05-14-2002, 07:48 AM

OOh blimey, can of worms on this one.

I have been tugged twice for no real reason, just as spot checks, and both times late at night. My view is i cant see the harm in it, i mean, just by running your reg number through the computer wont tell the copper if you have a boot full of Crack Cocaine will it?

Yes i agree with the statement that every innocent citizen has the right to be left alone, but how does the law know that you are innocent just by looking at your car.

Picture the scene, its late at night, you are in bed with the wife and the phone rings, its the police, they have been called to the nightclub where your son / daughter has gone for the night. You are asked to get there asap as they suspect your child has taken an ecstasy pill, however its gone badly wrong, and she is unconcious. You arrive at the scene to find she has been taken to hospital critically ill. You wait by her bedside for hours........she slips into a coma and dies.

Naturally you are a wreck, and all you want to do is get hold of the bastard who sold this pill to your child. You go back to the club, and frantically question her friends who were with her..."How did she get hold of the drugs" Who did she get them from" you run around saying. One of them comes forward and says, well, she was talking to a guy in a Black Chevvy, and he handed her something in a bag, this was about midnight, then he drove off.........

If, at 11.30 that night, the car had been spot checked, you would still have your child.

Need i say more?

This is a true story by the way, happened in the UK a few years back.

Kuan · #14 05-14-2002, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear
old Bill are still trying to prevent the theft of the older Merc's as well.

It must have been your hot-rodding! Seriously, is there a problem with older Benzes being stolen? Here in the US it's a non-issue.

Kuan

Billybob · #15 05-14-2002, 10:51 AM

Well thank you Matt, you have illustrated my point quite nicely. The difference in cultural attitude is crystal clear, in Great Britain the population at large would rather give up of any and all liberty and freedom to avoid the opportunity for stupid people to engage in stupid behavior. Rather than hold a person (children in nightclubs) or that person's learned behavior (attributable in the greatest part to the parents and home) responsible for willingly and knowingly ingesting a mind altering substance you would assign the blame to the person who sold the drug and be perfectly willing to require any other person who might be driving a "black Chevy" to prove their innocence to the authorities whom you and your "child" have abdicated your personal responsibilities to. Your world is "safer and more secure" and you have your government protecting you from your own stupidity!

In Great Britain you have never been a free people as from time immemorial you have been "ruled" by one despot or another, either the most powerful or those of "divine right" and as a culture and society have come to depend on anything but your individual selves for solutions to even the smallest of difficulties.

In the United States we have a system of beliefs that demands that each and every citizen accept and shoulder as much responsibility as possible first and then when circumstances are so adverse we allow government to in a limited fashion help those who have proven to be incapable of overcoming the difficulties before them.

Our system is designed to allow individuals to rise to the occasion rather than lowering the expectations of all to subsidize the failures of the few.

There is great debate within our culture as to how much we can adhere to these fundamental principles or whether we should abandon them and co-opt our opportunity for advancement and end up like Great Britain or Europe.

Culturally we do not view" keeping a stiff upper lip" as a virtue but generally regard it as the result of a collective failure to demonstrate the intestinal fortitude to achieve better!

Lastly I believe history demonstrates that our ideals first articulated and demonstrated back in 1776 are superior to all that came before then and any that have come since. In the last two and a half centuries our star has risen to new heights never before imagined, people around the world have embraced our truths and have prospered, and the sad truth is that since that time the British Empire and every other hierarchal system of governance has steadily retreated and declined in every place it exists. The tyranny of government over individual is fought to the death in this country every minute of every day and so far the millions of individuals that make-up and contribute their energy to that battle and our culture have prevailed. The result has been the development of the most sophisticated and technologically advance civilization which affords the most opportunity for the greatest number of individuals to aspire and achieve, anywhere, anytime ever.

I am completely aware of the many imperfections that our system of beliefs has, but at the same time realize that it is this very system that has thus far offered the greatest capability to address and remedy any imperfections.

The only thing that you have secured is misery and mediocrity for your own and your future generations. Good luck!